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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Align 600N gasser conversion
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
i just registered there , so copperclad it the newest member , i saw a post looking for a corel or cad frame file by fixer and thought it looked familiar , pretty cool site , i didn't know it was there , i am spending too much time in the basement and RR , thanks again , really cool to see some pictures of the 700 finally , dana
02-03-2008 12:37 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Hi Dana, yep it’s a really cool site and welcome aboard, now I might get the drawings I was looking for

Peter
02-03-2008 12:52 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Yesterday I saw A Trex 600N sport up close for the first time, on it's maiden flight. I gotta say, this is one sharp looking heli. With all of the metal components on a sport model, it really suprised me. I don't know what the difference is between sport and pro models, but I do know that I will be more than happy with the sport. This heli with a gas engine has got to be the perfect heli for me! I am curious whether there will be a pull start. That would be great. Also, will the ignition be the stock module or the low current one that you found? Can we even order the motor without the ignition module? I do not want to use the stock one if I can avoid it.
02-03-2008 04:45 PM
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Invrted1

i hadn't seen a 600 till i ordered mine and was very pleased with the quality of the kit , the parts all look very good for fit and finish

the difference between the sport and pro as i understand it are

the pro has a CF frame and a CNC tailbox with torque tube drive

the sport has silver G-10 frames and a plastic tailbox with belt drive

the belt tail is way more forgiving if you biff the tail as the pros gears will strip

i ordered a CNC belt tail box for $47.50 for mine



the G-20 does not come with a pullstart like the G-231 and G-260 do , but the pullstart will fit it with the exception of the drive dog on the back of the crank does not have the reach the G-20 needs



i love that gassers use a pullstart and that a starter motor and all the other field equipment is not needed , so i will have it setup to use the pullstart

one last thing i should cover here is , there are a number of areas like this drive dog issue , and the power train for instance that need to be added to the cost of the kit , in order to complete the conversion , and although the cost of the sport kit is only $350.00 shipped , by the time you add the cost of the engine and all the other items needed i think it will be right up there with the rest of the gassers , i haven't totaled it yet , but i intend to at the end of this thread once i have it flying , but now might be a good time to toss in a short list of what will be needed to follow the build i am doing

Align 600N kit
Zenoah G-20ei engine ***
Century Gasser fan hub
Century gasser fan
Century Gasser shroud
Century Gasser shroud mounting plate
Century CNC servo arms
R-90 clutch
R-90 clutch bell
R-90 starter shaft
Zenoah pullstart

***i am thinking since the hub needs to be changed out on the engine , this could also be part of the conversion kit

i am leaning more and more to offering the conversion as a kit , where i would supply the frames and the modified drive train parts and the builder would just need to have the 600n kit , along with all the radio gear , i would like it to all be just a matter for the builder to bolt in the parts , like a big kit

you have probably already figured out i have a shop in my house , with a metal lathe and a mill , and a CNC plasma cutter , plus the full rack of power saws , drill presses and a raft of other metal working tools , and 35 years of metal working experience behind me

it is still to early for anyone to jump in on this as it would make sense to let me finish mine and see if it is a good idea , or a not so good idea

dana
02-03-2008 05:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Quote 
i ordered a CNC belt tail box for $47.50 for mine

Thats sounds very reasonable, I will get one as soon as I break the stock one.


Quote 
so i will have it setup to use the pullstart

I was hoping you would say that

Copperclad: YOU DA MAN!!
02-03-2008 05:15 PM
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Oh yeah, can we order the engine without the ignition module? Will you be testing with the stock one or the aftermarket version?
02-03-2008 05:21 PM
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi
i have a plank i have been flying with the stock model and i have an engine i have run with the low current model and as far as running is concerned the only noticable difference is the current draw , i do not believe Horizon offers the engine without the EI unit , you also have to be aware that the engine is an aero engine and needs the hub changed ( this involves the proper puller ) , this is why i am thinking with the kit i mention in my post above that it would be a good idea for me to include these mods , dana
02-03-2008 05:33 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Invrted1
Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

I should have known that you would think of everything!
02-03-2008 05:42 PM
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Invrted1
thanks , i have been having a great time working on this and jumped in , thinking it looked like it could mostly be done , with a set of modified frames , and the truth is with mostly stock parts from three different suppliers , and and some minimal machining it can be , looking back there are still a lot of parts involved , but i am still hoping it would be feasible to offer a conversion kit , and have it be reasonable , knock wood , thanks again , dana
02-03-2008 05:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Hi Dana, I’m just wondering if this fan might be worth a try, using this would mean you only had to drill the taper.

http://www.helikraft.com/Thunder+Ti...435YS-L%29.html

02-03-2008 05:59 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
i know that the taper used on the Zenoah engines is a common metric taper , it is used on small honda engines and i am sure a number of others as well , i spent a bunch of time looking to see if i could source a reamer for this taper as that would be the best way to convert straight bore fans , it would be easy to just chuck them up and run the proper bit in and be done

when i first started following the R-90 conversion threads , i would always post asking , "how are you dealing with the taper" , of coarse with my lathe i understand that i can bore the taper with a small boring bar and by setting the cross slide to the right angle , and i also know i can use a discarded Zenoah crank and a dial indicator to get this angle perfect , but i shy away from this as making ten or twenty would be a pain

i like the idea that with the right parts , and perhaps some simple machining , the conversion can be practical , for instance the Predator hub has a slight lip on the front and , it is easy to chuck it up and take the lip off in about a minute , and once you setup for one , running twenty would be easy

the other problem i worry about , is even with the taper bore solved , i would still need to source a fanshroud , for the smaller fan , and it is not so hard to make a mold and produce shrouds , it is not something i really want to spend my time doing

this is where it all gets back to tradeoffs , the predator stuff is nice , because it is a complete system , designed for the gasser engines , and only needs minor mods to work with the G-20 , the downside is it runs about $150.00 US shipped for the Fan hub , fan , shroud and shroud mount

so it is perhaps spendy , but i wonder if by the time you get cheaper parts and do more work to make them work , you might not have been just better off with the $150.00 out front

and then the last thing is , with this machine as a proof of concept , it doesn't really matter and i am not really locked into basing the kit on all the parts i used here

say the machine flys and holds up and i am still grinning ear to ear , it would not be a big deal to tweek the frames to except a different fan and shroud setup and run with a completely different setup , as it is possible that the machine will need a serious V2 mod to even be close to what i want , and i will find out once this one is up and running , i am still seeing that there is no sense in getting locked into this being the only way to go this early , and that is why you see my trying to flag people off with " don't buy anything yet , let me finish this and see if it even works first " , cheers , dana
02-03-2008 07:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

I Dana, I had thought the Raptor fan would work with the Century fan shroud and also hadn’t realized how hard It was to machine the taper, I can understand why you have chosen the century parts and like you say your still at the early stages with this design and things could change after testing.

I used the Quick UK fan on my first Gasser conversion and if I told you how I achieved the fan taper I would have everybody on RR falling of there chairs laughing so I will keep it to myself

Peter
02-03-2008 08:13 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
no way would i laugh , i take my hat off to you , i would think to machine the taper without a lathe would be

1: take fan hub

2: >insert miracle here<

3 install finished hub

i have heard people say you just set the cross slide to such and such an angle , and no problem

and of course , i am thinking , if it is off by half a degree you can kiss the hub goodbye before you bin it , there are a ton of operations you can produce on a lathe and most of them don't need half the accuracy needed for a proper engine taper , and if it is off there is probably little chance it will make itself known till the hub wallows itself out , this is what has me thinking the reamer would be the hot setup

you see me , i am pretty game to try new things , but with a taper hub , i am a total chicken , cheers , dana
02-03-2008 08:41 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

[quote]you see me , i am pretty game to try new things , but with a taper hub , i am a total chicken


1: take fan hub

2: >insert miracle here<

3 install finished hub

Well it wasn’t a miracle, I would say it was a big fluke originally I did it just so I could carry on with the build and see how the engine and fan setup lined up with the clutch, then when it was all built up I just couldn’t resist starting the engine, to my surprise I couldn’t feel any vibration on the clutch bell then one test lead to another and I've been flying it ever since until I had a couple of hot starts and needed to reline the clutch.
02-03-2008 09:01 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
i hear you , when i get to a point and one thing needs to get done so i can continue , it is a huge motivational force , and things get done , what ever it takes , good work , dana
02-03-2008 09:50 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jackheli
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver - Canada

Quote 
don't know what the difference is between sport and pro models

A little late but here it comes. I have a 600N sport with a YS50. Still breaking it in with 8 tanks through.

Other than the mentioned belt/tt, plastic closed tail case/metal open tail case, g10/carbon frames, the sport comes with a plastic canopy and the pro with a painted frp, which could be either red or white (really nice trims). The stickers on the sport are crap by the way, so don't count on having a nice sport canopy...
The tail blades on the sport are plastic (good quality, though) and the pro's are carbon.

I added frame stiffeners for $6 and a carbon tail rod. That was it.



Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new - Albert Einstein
02-04-2008 05:55 AM
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Jack
thanks , i had forgotten to mention the canopy , and i didn't know about the tail blades

i had to order some 4mm X 2mm disk magnets to fit my fan , so i can use it for the ignition sensor , and have figured out a pretty easy way to fit the pullstart , i am thinking i will put a circlip on the top of the start shaft , with the clutch on the engine it is not a problem , but evertime i remove the clutch and clutch case as a unit the start shaft slips out , weekends are always slow here for the hobby as family comes first , but just barely

02-04-2008 02:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi
you probably already know that the Zenoah G-20ei is an Aero engine and does not come with the pullstarter , and it is interesting as the G-231 and G260 do come with it , if you look at the larger engines you will see they attach to the backplate with three bolts and the starter attaches with four

but if you look at the G-20 it has four bolt mounting and the bolt pattern has the exact same layout as the pullstarter , this would be great if the starter body wasen't plastic , you could just bolt the starter and the engine to the backplate with the same set of bolts , but life is not that simple

i also thought it might be possible to rotate the starter 45 degrees and end up with enough room to have 4 more bolts , but the engine case is big enough at the base that it would interfere with the starter bolts

so are we on plan "C" yet , no way am i going to has a gasser and not have a pullstarter

so i bought some 4mm X 25mm socket head cap screws , and sawed just the head off , this left me with a 25mm stud , and i got four 4mm nuts and four more 4mm nyloc nuts

the basic idea is the studs are threaded into the engine case and then the baseplate is bolted down with the four nuts , this leaves 9mm of the stud sticking up through the nut , and the pullstarter is located on the four studs and then bolted down with the four nyloc nuts , might not be pretty but it is pretty simple here are some photos , the second photo shows the starter in place ready to have the nyloc nuts screwed on , cheers , dana

02-04-2008 08:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Hi Dana
That’s a great idea , I was looking at the 4 nuts and thinking what’s to stop theses working loose but then I realised the nuts on the pull start are nylon so they should stop the others working loose, I suppose you could use some star or spring washers as well.
I cast alloy pull start would be good.
Good work as always.
02-04-2008 08:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
copperclad
Elite Veteran
Location: ..

hi Peter
thanks , i was thinking some medium strength loctite on the studs in the case and then the first set of nuts , and then the nyloc nuts would just be a second line of defense , dana

i have to pop the whole marryanne together and check my CG , before i finalize the location of the two batteries and their switch harnesses , and that just leaves getting or making the boom servo mount , i have the diameter and will look to see what else would fit
02-04-2008 11:05 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
23 pages [ <<    <     5      6     ( 7 )     8      9     NEXT    >> ]15216 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Align 600N gasser conversion
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