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Engines Plugs Mufflers Fuel > Thunder Tiger Redline .53
 
 
dangtsi
Senior Heliman
Location: Hockley, Texas, Waller

If the barrel binds mainly in one direction take a look at the very end of the wire on the spring. It is sharp and not beveled to allow it to slide on both the end of the barrel or the back of the carb. The end of the spring grabs more one way than it does the other. The old TT50 had the same problem. Lubricant will help but the problem will return over time. Try filing a bevel on the very ends of the spring wire so that a flat surface exists instead of the sharp end on the spring. Add some light lubricant to both ends of the spring and in the groove. It should work smoothly for a long time.
02-26-2008 09:29 PM
 
 
GMPheli
Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

Gee, where were you guys a while back with this post?

www.runryder.com/helicopter/t389951p1/

I got my a$$ reamed when I said that I greased throttle barrels. I too stated the problem with Supertigre carbs and no one remembered.
I hope Dkshema reads this!!!

Alan
02-26-2008 10:29 PM
 
 
S Bell
Senior Heliman
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Can you still sit down?

Raptors are everywhere
02-26-2008 10:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GMPheli
Veteran
Location: W. Bridgewater, MA USA

Yes, Stephen, but it is painfull!!!
You crack me up!!
I was going to reply to this thread and suggest some grease, but I didn't dare!
Alan
02-26-2008 10:39 PM
 
 
rotory
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Muffler?

Whats a good muffler for TT Redline 53 and where to get it? anyone?
Bob
02-27-2008 02:40 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

I bought the MP5 based on Dino's recommendations, seems to work very well. It can be picked up at most heli shops. www.ronlund.com generally stocks everything if you don't already have a favorite shop.


Nick Crego
Still wanted by the government, I survive as a soldier of fortune.
02-27-2008 02:46 PM
 
 
Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

barrel

pull the barrel apart and put a good syn grease in the grove, try and not tighten down on the two bolts to much just snug them a little lock tite just to make sure they say in. I am thinking if you over tighten the carb to much loading it on one side more than the other as the motor gets hot it may cause the metal to expand un-even cause the barrel to bind some, Just some of my thoughts after taking with jared this weekend.

Team Thunder Tiger
Team Futaba
CY Enterprises
Morgan fuel
Rev max
TEAM MAPTERGY
02-27-2008 08:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
v58 fuy
Veteran
Location: UK - Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Had a brief fly with mine today and can't believe it is still bedding in, leaned main needle down to 1 3/4 turns (20% nitro) and the power still keeps coming.

I'm sorry but I don't have any problems with sticky carb or lean spot - just lots of power.

David
02-27-2008 11:46 PM
 
 
Rockohaulic
Elite Veteran
Location: Valencia, CA, USA, 3rd Rock from the Sun

Andy,

Quote 
instead alter the internal needle by a tiny amount to gain huge benefits.

Can you elaborate??

How are you altering that tiny, internal needle? How do you get to it (after you pull the barrel out)?

Pics?

I got a helicopter for my girlfriend,
It was a good trade!
02-28-2008 12:07 AM
 
 
rotory
Heliman
Location: Los Angeles

Nick

Thanks bro

Bob
02-28-2008 01:48 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Solved my sticky carb barrel, and it was completely my fault. Pulled the engine from my 600N, and of course it was hard to turn the barrel. backed both carb mounting screws out 1/8th of a turn, and it turns easy. Since I had it apart, I pulled the barrel and packed the screw slot with grease, put a bit of locktite in the screw holes on the engine, and tightened the screws down, checking the throttle movement as I went. It actually takes a pretty good amount of torque to cause the binding, so I got it tightened up, and made sure it was moving smoothly.

So, to reiterate, totally my fault, I overtorqued the screws. Everything is smooth now.


Nick Crego
Still wanted by the government, I survive as a soldier of fortune.
03-01-2008 02:41 AM
 
 
TonyF
Senior Heliman
Location: Southern CA

I've been running a YS in my Pro for 160 flights, but I thought I'd give something else a try in a new Sport. So I got a .53 but I've been having big trouble with it going dead lean in a hover and then getting too hot. I could richen the idle needle and get the hover fine but then it was way too rich at idle. I spent one day chasing it with the Throttle Jockey on and then another day trying to set it running just on curves. No luck either way.

So after reading this thread I took Andy's suggestion and worked on the needle that's behind the throttle arm. I have tried tapering it some and I did get improvements, but it's a lot of work taking things apart, changing it and putting it back together and I still don't have it right.

Maybe my problem is the Align muffler, but I'm getting a bit tired chasing this thing. It does seem like the power is there, but the adjustment range of the carb is really poor.

For now I think I'm going to stick an OS in it and give that a try. Congrats to all that are having good results but I'm not having any luck.
03-01-2008 03:31 AM
 
 
baddraptor
Elite Veteran
Location: valencia, ca- usa

Get rid of the Align pipe. I had a b!tch of a time tuning with it.The MP5 IS the pipe to get. Tunes much easier and richens that mid lean spot right up.

**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
03-01-2008 03:35 AM
 
 
lpearce
Senior Heliman
Location: Pukekohe, Auckland NZ

My TT53 really likes the RJX pipe. Im running it on 20/20 coolpower blue. and it has heaps of power (unless I really screw up on the collective that is)
03-01-2008 04:07 AM
 
 
arceye
Veteran
Location: UK

Rockohaulic:

The needle I am refering to is adjusted from behind the throttle arm (like the low end used to be on the old TT50 engine). To get to it you must remove the throttle arm and look inside, there you will find the slot to adjust it.
Only adjust it by maybe 1/8 of a turn and after you will have to retune both high and low end as they will be very rich.

I have no pictures of it because at the time of alternig mine I wanted to make sure it was the right thing to do before I even thought about suggesting to others that it is an option so I wanted to flight test it first.
Of course now I know it works and the engine runs better than ever I have no intentions of removing the engine until I have to.

Andy


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
03-01-2008 11:13 AM
 
 
alfred
Veteran
Location: Australia, New South Wales, Mid North Coast

Andy
The needle you are referring to is part "J" in the exploded drawing of the carby.
Now from what I can tell, by screwing it out 1/8 ( I assume that's what you mean) you just seem to move the midpoint of the carby?
As it is the opposing part of the idle needle and moves in and out with the barrel.
I haven't run my engine yet, so this is pure theory at this stage.
03-01-2008 02:29 PM
 
 
v58 fuy
Veteran
Location: UK - Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Andy,

Clearly you've made an adjustment which has worked for you, but I'm struggling to get my head round it mate.

You say that you adjusted the needle inside the throttle barrel, then had to re-adjust the main needle?

My brain is struggling with one, but I think I'm right in saying the needle you adjusted moves in and out with the throttle barrel which is in effect controlled by your throttle curve. If we assume the normal low needle stayed where it was before you adjusted needle J, then I think all you've done is richen the idle and lower the transition point between needles?

Surely you could achieve exactly the same simple by richening the normal low needle, and adjusting your mid-range throttle curve points? Or have i mis-understood something?

David
03-01-2008 05:10 PM
 
 
arceye
Veteran
Location: UK

alfred:
I adjusted the needle inside the carb by about 1/8, this is the opposing part of the throttle as described and yes it has moved the transition point.

V58 Fuy:
After adjusting the needle as described it allowed me to lean out on both high and low end. You are correct in that the needle is controlled by the throttle barrel but incorrect in that thinking the throttle curve would have any affect on it.
By adjusting the needle you are giving more fuel for the same amount of air (otherwise known as making it richer).
In reality what I did was alter the transition point of the high and low needles which gives the high needle control over more of the mixture over the entire range. The effect of this is that the idle needle only has control of the idle mixture and nothing more.
I didn't only adjust the needle I also put a slight taper on the end of it to further give a smooth transition but I really don't feel the taper was necessary.
I will make an attempt to do a flash animation showing what I did and how it changes things which will hopefully give you a better understanding of what I an trying to explain.
Damn.. explaining this in text for is so hard compared to just talking.


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
03-01-2008 11:29 PM
 
 
v58 fuy
Veteran
Location: UK - Tunbridge Wells, Kent

Andy,

Wouldn't richening the normal low needle and opening the throttle a tad at idle have the same effect?

Since the normal low needle and the needle in the throttle barrel come together to control mixture at idle and part throttle openings, opening up the needle in throttle barrel gives a richer mixture for a given amount of air (throttle opening) - this surely is the same as richening the standard low needle? Or am I missing something.

I think richening the standard low needle would also lower the transition point between main and low needles, because the idle needles would clear each other at a lower throttle opening.

David
03-02-2008 11:00 AM
 
 
arceye
Veteran
Location: UK

V58 fuy:

I'll try to address your questions 1 at a time but this is so difficult to put into words on a screen

First the way the mixture needles work is as follows.

High needle - this controls ALL fuel flow from idle to full throttle any adjustment made to the high effects everything from idle to full throttle.
Low needle - this only effects the mixture from idle to the point where the internal needle is opened by a small amount. altering this will only effect the mixture up to the just after the point of separation of the internal needle and its other half.
Internal Needle - this affects the point at which the low and high transition opening it makes the transition at a lower throttle position so makes the high needle have dominance at a lower amount of throttle.


Quote 
Wouldn't richening the normal low needle and opening the throttle a tad at idle have the same effect?
No.. that will indeed give a richer transition but it will be at the same point on the throttle range and it will also give an over rich low end so compromises the overall tuning.
Quote 
Since the normal low needle and the needle in the throttle barrel come together to control mixture at idle and part throttle openings, opening up the needle in throttle barrel gives a richer mixture for a given amount of air (throttle opening) - this surely is the same as richening the standard low needle? Or am I missing something.
By opening the internal needle it separates at a lower throttle so the main needle becomes the more dominant needle for mid range adjustment by forcing the standard low needle to only have effect at idle and very low throttle as it should.
Quote 
I think richening the standard low needle would also lower the transition point between main and low needles, because the idle needles would clear each other at a lower throttle opening.
Richening the low needle will give a richer transition but it will not in any way change the transition point as it cannot change the actual separation point of internal needle and its other half, it will however create a very rich low end and create idling problems.

Let me try to explain in a different way but before I start this is example only.
Lets pretend that the perfect mixture is 10 parts fuel ad 100 parts air for the entire throttle range. WOT = full power
The problem = lean mid range

As my engine came to me when tuned by adjusting only the low and high needles I ended up with
Idle = 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect
mid range = 2 parts fuel / 100 parts air = very lean (bad)
WOT = 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect

Your way by making low and high richer (it takes both needles to alter mid range not one or the other)
Idle = 30 parts fuel / 100 parts air = over rich (bad idle)
mid range = 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect
WOT = 30 parts fuel / 100 parts air = over rich (lower full power)

My way by altering the internal needle thus forcing the low needle to ONLY control idle and VERY little throttle.
idle = 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect
mid range = 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect
WOT - 10 parts fuel / 100 parts air = perfect

Hopefully this is more clear to you at explaining WHY making the low end richer and the high end richer to compensate for a lean mid range is not the best option.

Most of all I again have to say this lean mid range I only noticed when running a governed head speed of 1700 - 1750, with the head-speed a bit lower or a bit higher there was no problem as the carb was not being held at this very specific point which just so happened to be the exact point of transition between low and high needles.

Andy


Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
03-02-2008 09:31 PM
 
 
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