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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Charging the 3s batteries for the king

Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

I have read that you can charge these batteries at a rate of 3C (is that 3amps?) but also that only 1C is adviseable. Which is right? Ive charged at 1amp and 2amps which seemed ok. What are you doing with these batteries?

01-24-2008 12:46 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

3s means 3cell the ones for the king are usually rated to charge at no more than 1c. Take the charge c rating times the pack capacity this is what they can charge at.

1c x 1500mah = 1500mah 1.5 amp max charge

heres a link that explains lipos real well

http://www.rchobbies.org/lithium_ba...reakthrough.htm

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 01:26 AM

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Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

I use the Cellpro and it automatically adjusts the charging current. I'm not sure how it knows but it does. My FMA cells charge up to and 2.25C (about 3 amps) and the Esky battery charges at 1c.

01-24-2008 01:49 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Gregor you know the cellpro doesn't actually adjust itself you have to hold the button down to select from all the modes and it slowly builds up to what you set it at.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 01:53 AM

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tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

hold button in it will cycle through modes.

.25A
.5A
.75A
1.0A up to 4A

then
1,2,3,4,C
AS123
store lipo

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 01:55 AM

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Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

OK, that helps alot. I have a couple of 1500mah batteries and Ill set the max at 1.5C.

01-24-2008 02:01 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

I personally don't go over the 1C its harder on the packs. You'll be shortening the life of the cheap packs even at 1C. I check them while charging and mine are room temp so I assume they are not being hurt at 1c. Im just cautious cause it sucks not having any batteries to fly.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 02:08 AM

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Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Quote
Gregor you know the cellpro doesn't actually adjust itself

Here's what the manual says.

Quote
The Cellpro Revolution 4s Charger provides both automatically controled and fixed charging current modes. In X.0C LiPo 4.20v Mode LiPo cells are individually charged to 4.20v per cell. The charger measures pack parameters and sets the optimal charge current.

You can see this if you switch display to the show the charge current. It starts at 0.00 and in the first 5 minutes slowly ramps up. It then backs off a bit. Current tends to fluxuate throughout the charge. Toward the end charge it slowly tapers back down. When the charge amount reaches 99% you can get a better sense of how much time is left by watching the current. It slowly tapers down and when you get to .20-.15 amps you are almost there.

I've charged an Esky 800mah cell at the 3C setting and the charge current is just over 1 amp. The FMA cells are between 2 and 3amps.

01-24-2008 02:30 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Ok that may be true I was thinking about when I overcharged the lama pack forgot I was at 1amp not 1c it got warm and scared me only recommended at .5Amp.

I have watched the current draw through a charge and through balancing I know what they are. I studied them between different packs which all charge differently by the way.

your scenario doesn't come out right though 800mah x 3c = 2400mah or 2.4amp charge rate the charger shouldn't of gone past 2.4amp if it was automatic.

Quote
I've charged an Esky 800mah cell at the 3C setting and the charge current is just over 1 amp. The FMA cells are between 2 and 3amps.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 02:48 AM

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Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

Tryan. I think Gregor had the charger set to 3c max but the charger never actually went there. That was the point.

I was just reading about the charging of these batteries and the CC/CV chargers start off charging with constant current until voltage at 80% charged level then the charger changes over to constant voltage to squeeze that last bit of charge into the battery pack. Good info at Tryans link

Anyway, FMA direct says you can charge their batts at the 3C rate? read that on here somewhere.

01-24-2008 02:53 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Ok 800mah at 3c is 2.4 amps max charge so it should of never got to 3 amps that is overcharging.

And on the back of my cellpro revolution 3S 2100mah "N" series pack the higher dollar pack says NEVER charge at a rate higher than 1C.

now I know nothing of the rev lectrix that just came out.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 02:59 AM

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Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

OK, so some folks do charge these batts at 3C.

Fenderstrat wrote:

Quote

I have been charging my batts a 3C for months and they are still at 100% capacity and they dont even get slightly warm while charging......if you are unsure of a particular batt monitor closely while charging and if anything(heat/puffing)occurs stop charging immediatly....but I doubt you will have many problems....and for the record the info I have on the CELLPRO came directly from FMA service techs,I called and asked them all about this charger before I bought,very nice guys,very informative

Check out these tests and info about TP chargers and batts. Alot of safe 3C charging going on with their stuff!

Quote

Here's a quote from Charlie Wang of TP from a post on RC Groups (Mar 04, 2006, 12:52 AM):
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...10c#post5127230
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The TP1010C/TP205,205V,210V,are designed to charge prolite at up to 3C.
But the testing is time consuming.

I am 100% sure that 3C charging have no effect on cycle life of ProLite 480s.910s and 2100s(one single test would take more than 2 months, the ProLite 910 test/3C charging is still on going after 1100 cycles)

We have to test from 1S to 10S pack with capacity of 480s to 6000s, tell me how much time is needed for approval

It will take another 6 to 8 weeks minimuim for official annoucement for 3C charging.

Regards,
Charlie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a follow-up quote from Charlie in the same thread (Mar 12, 2006, 06:47 PM):

Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I spent 4 months with thousands of charge/discharge cycles testing ProLites charging at 3C with TP1010C/205,205V210V:
Safety:
1)All TP ProLites match pack technology are allow to be charged at 3C effieciently with zero effect on cycle life(With TP1010C/balancer).
2)Thunder Power ProLite can be charge safetly withTP1010C/TP balancer which include four safety charge program and auto charge reduction to deal with safety of charging unhealty pack
3)These Charging system also prevent the charger from charging if cell count is incorrectly set, this added preventive measure combine with overcharge shut-off,over imbalance shut-off for maximum safety
4)Auto current reduction is an included safety if you unintentionaly charging an unhealty pack.

Charge time and break-in:
1))Full charge setting:charge time from 3.6V(96% discharge pack) to 97% is 26 minutes.
2)Fast charge setting(V1.90):charge time from 3.6V to 95% is 23 minutes.
3)Battery breakin:All 3C charging I performed start from the first cycle.
But breakin cycle is always good to formulate the cell.
Charge the first 5 cycles at 1C and fly at 3 to 5C with any ProLite packs to no more than 90%
4)Do not discharge to below 3.45V/cell if you use a discharger.
*Break-in by discharging at 1C is not effective, it is better that you simply fly the pack gentle the first 5 cycles.

Regards,
CHarlie

01-24-2008 03:07 AM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

I read that before I am an rcgroups member but dont go there much. Im poor so those packs are a little out of reach $50 for a 1300mah pack. I have seen the difference in a few packs. I assumed all lipos were the same battery is copper and zinc with electrolytic in between. Boy was I wrong you get what you pay for. The megapowers are great and run cool but the power has no consistency. I have a no named pack from hong Kong it has better consistency but runs hotter. Now the FMA cell pro revolution N series is in a class by itself runs almost room temp and power never changes a bit from start to end. Although I was really surprised when it said to never charge more than 1C. Oh well maybe a123 will come down in price and the old lipos will be gone. thats how all the packs run but they all charge differently too.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-24-2008 03:26 AM

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Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

On my 800mah with the Cellpro set to 3c the charge current is closer to 1amp-1.5amps. Regarding the Revolution packs, here's what the Cellpro manual says:

Quote
Cycle life on high discharge packs (12c and greater) is not affected by the Cell Pro 3C charge current

Using heat as an indicator, I think its far safer to charge at 3C than discharge below 10%

01-24-2008 04:52 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

OK, just checked. My FMA batteries also say not charge over 1c. Seems to be some contradiction there. I'll look into the matter.

01-24-2008 05:48 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Updating this thread with info from FMA. First off, the warning on thier batteries applies to charging them with another vendor's chargers. Since they cannot predict how someone else's charger will determine the battery's optimal charge current, the only safe recommendation is to stay at 1c.

However when charged with the Cellpro, the charger detects the batteries internal resistance and adjusts the charge rate accordingly. This logic only applies to batteries that are 13c or higher. So you can safely charge other higher C batteries in the auto setting.

01-28-2008 10:53 PM

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

great to hear thanks gregor

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-28-2008 11:13 PM

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Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

Yeah and TP says you can use their charger at higher charge rates too I suspect. So, can you use TP charger with FMA batts and visa versa?

01-28-2008 11:51 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Yes, that's what I suspect. As long the battery is at 1east 13c (for the Cellpro) and what ever minium for the TP charger, it should be fine to charge at higher current levels using the charger's automatic mode. Charging at a straight 3c without the safeguards of auto mode is likely not a good idea. In auto mode I've noticed that that Cellpro doesn't charge at a solid 3c, but varies the charge current throughout the charge cycle. Likely as a response to something its detecting in the pack.

01-29-2008 12:08 AM

fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

do you guys have this sorted out now?

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST

01-29-2008 01:11 AM

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Charging the 3s batteries for the king

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