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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > New Flybarless System
 
 
george0079
Elite Veteran
Location: Terra Firma

So then, after an auto, I should wait before trying to do another, even if the blades haven't stopped?

The older I get, the shorter my attention....... Oh look. A shiny penny..

Steve
04-12-2008 11:28 PM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

That would be safer, but if it's hasn't wound down much it should be ok. As long as the heli doesn't do that "spool up wiggle" you're probably fine. The heavy vibration at start up may be the blades straightening out in their grips, it doesn't always show up.
04-13-2008 02:13 AM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Bruce, is the manual available for download? I'd like to look it over while I wait for my SK360 to get here.


Nick Crego
Back off man, I'm a scientist.
04-13-2008 02:39 AM
 
 
george0079
Elite Veteran
Location: Terra Firma

Well, I got it installed. Won't be able to try it until the morning.

One thing that I noticed... There are no basic starting point parameters in it. I know that every heli is different, but some basic doscile numbers would be good. This "Trial and error" method could get rather exciting and expensive....

The older I get, the shorter my attention....... Oh look. A shiny penny..

Steve
04-13-2008 04:43 AM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re the manual look on the website under "tech specs" and there is a link to it.

Re starting parameters the default tuning on the "Advanced" tab should be good for sport and light 3D. The rates may be a little quick for some people raw, but just add 30% or so expo in your radio and it should be comfortable. Another starting-point file is in the program's directory (c:\program files\DigitalFlybar) for harder 3D.

What you want to focus on for tuning is the bell and hiller dials (see section 12). The PC interface shows the % value each dial is at, and a good starting point here is 35% for the Bell dial and 50% for the Hiller dial (note elevator values lead, the aileron values just tags along).

Focus on Hiller first, it will wander if its too low, turn it up in small steps, down again a step if it oscillates. 50% is actually fairly low, but a safe starting point. Typical end values are 55-70%. Very much like tail gyro tuning (Hiller is the main stability gain).

Bell tuning is next to eliminate oscillation at the start and stop of harder maneuvers, getting it right is important for 3D but not so much for sport (Bell = fast acting, direct control from the sticks).

If you get the mechanical & swash setup right (cyclic pitch & phasing, section 5), the tuning should be easy.
04-13-2008 06:06 AM
 
 
Clearance
Veteran
Location: Left Coast Canada

I tend to want to "pop" the Hirobo Evo 50 off the ground just to eliminate any "surprises" during take off. If the swashplate is not level, then, I can correct the situation while hovering at a safe distance off the ground. I agree, there is a considerable amount of vibration while the heli is spooling up!
The Evo flies as if it's on "uppers", lightning fast through the air, incredibly fast stationary rolls (a bit too fast for my style of flying). With each flight I am realizing the potential of a flybarless system. If only the weather would cooperate. Ken
04-13-2008 03:37 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> The reason for this "lock down" feature during spool up

What is the exact entry criteria for the "lock down" period?

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
04-14-2008 04:24 PM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Just to let it sit still for a few seconds.

In most cases, you'd set down your heli for take off, and by the time you walk back a safe distance it'll have realized it's static. You can test it by giving it some aileron, then center the stick - if the swash quickly levels out again, it's ready.
04-14-2008 08:11 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

And when does it exit this mode?

Thanks,
John

Protos -- Logo 10
04-14-2008 08:42 PM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

It exits spool-up mode a few seconds after it detects the vibration from the rotor spinning. By that time the start-up wobbles should be over.

If you took off very quickly it wouldn't be much of a problem; it'd just hold a bit less firm until it exited that mode.

On the subject, as the manual notes, don't move the cyclic until the heli is light on its skids; it will get "frustrated" and may try to achieve the requested roll/pitch command when it lifts off. You can see similar behavior sometimes with heading-hold tail gyros (of course it's less bad if the tail twitches 30 degrees on take off). This stuff becomes second nature after a while.
04-15-2008 03:51 AM
 
 
george0079
Elite Veteran
Location: Terra Firma

Quote 
It exits spool-up mode a few seconds after it detects the vibration from the rotor spinning. By that time the start-up wobbles should be over.

Is this parameter/time-frame adjustable? Can it be extended or shortened?

The older I get, the shorter my attention....... Oh look. A shiny penny..

Steve
04-15-2008 03:57 AM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

>Is this parameter/time-frame adjustable? Can it be extended or shortened?

No, the spool-up mode time can't be adjusted with the current firmware rev. If that turns out to be needed, it could be adjustable in future.

Behavior at take off for gyro-assisted flybarless is the most important flying quality diff to know about ahead of time, so I'm just trying to make sure people are aware of it.
04-15-2008 04:04 AM
 
 
brucewsb
Heliman
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Is this similar to how V-bar behaves when taking off? I've heard others comment about getting away from the ground quickly but this is the first time I've heard a clear explanation of why to wait before moving cyclic until light on the skids.
04-15-2008 06:07 AM
 
 
JohnR
Heliman
Location: Dallas

The Vbar is abit intimidating the first few times because collective authority is not not headspeed dependant and " does this flybarless stuff really work?". If you are used to "wiggling the sticks" during spool up, it can dance as fast as you wiggle. Giving one with the impression that "wow, this is sensitve". Leaving the cyclic alone is all that is neccessary, and soon becomes habit. I imagine this is how it is learning with most flybarless systems.

John
04-15-2008 07:14 AM
 
 
brucewsb
Heliman
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

So with a flybarless setup, the cyclic gyros should compensate for any cross winds that you would normally try to adjust for on a flybar setup, correct?
04-15-2008 07:27 AM
 
 
e-copter
Senior Heliman
Location: Nice, France

Hi Burce,

did you receive my email ?

BEst regards,

Fabien

Too much is not enough....
04-15-2008 10:37 AM
 
 
JohnR
Heliman
Location: Dallas

Yes, The Vbar heli stays still in gusty winds. Lately I have been flying in up to 30 mph gusts. The heli justs sits there.

[quote]So with a flybarless setup, the cyclic gyros should compensate for any cross winds that you would normally try to adjust for on a flybar setup, correct?

John
04-15-2008 12:37 PM
 
 
flying glass
Heliman
Location: Rockford, IL. U.S.

a few pics of my SK-360 installed on a HOSS X4E w/ a lightning heli quad head
originally I was going to use an SA dragonus but there was just no where to mount the SK-360
I hope to be able to get a little more flight time in this week and have it ready for a fuselage by the weekend.
Did a test hover this morning and it just sat there even with a steady wind, even had my hands off of the sticks for a few seconds.
clean up the wiring and test fly it some more and I should be good to go

04-15-2008 03:12 PM
 
 
Bruce2.5D
Heliman
Location: Vancouver, Canada

flying glass:

Going into fellow-RC'r mode, I found the lightning 4-blade head had less vibration after cutting the slot in the head block about 1/4" deeper with a thin hand scroll-saw blade. The heads are a good value but need a little attention right out of the box.

For tuning the SK360 for multi-bladers, it seemed happiest with the phase trim about +5 to +10 degrees clockwise from the standard phasing from section 5 of the SK360 manual.

When phasing is off, you get a gentle "precession" motion that looks something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:..._precession.gif

That can be caused by the heli's physics, the SK360 being mounted crooked, or the head's anti-rotation follower dragging.
04-15-2008 07:38 PM
 
 
eric_b
Key Veteran
Location: Denver, CO, USA

My sk360 arrived today! I have a newly minted flybarless Mini Titan sitting here ready for it. Flight report coming soon!
04-15-2008 10:06 PM
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