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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Safety idea/question...

GyroFreak
Key Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 50' N 81° 16' W

Temper, temper my man. If your going to initiate an idea on a new design you must take criticism. In engineering we call it a design review ! It is how you learn the good points and bad points of any idea. You can't just pick the good points and ignore what you feel are derogatory remarks. Persons who bash an idea may have valid critical inputs, they just are not schooled in the ways of gentle persuasion.

Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have. !

01-17-2008 02:47 PM

helimatt
Key Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

How bout airbags built into the main blades...

Hey, wait, now that might actually have some potential.

The rod into the mains idea would result in the mains being shed, not stopped, thereby effectively creating a fragmentation bomb. Not so good an idea. If you have the "presence of mind" to hit whatever switch activates the rotor brake (or break), then why not just hit TH, or control the heli away from the pits in the first place.

We need a passive system if we were to increase safety of an out-of-control heli. From where I sit, thats a long way off and contradictory to other requirements we have like low weight/high performance, reliability, and cost.

For the time, keep the heli away from the crowd. Even if the pilot becomes disoriented to the point of flying a functional heli towards spectators, he can use TH, seriously reducing the energy of the rotor system.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

01-17-2008 03:35 PM

rcadd1ct
Elite Veteran
Location: Richardson, Texas

You need to design a rotor head that will go to 90 degrees of pitch if control is lost.

This will slow the head speed and increase the impact area if it hits somebody.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

01-17-2008 05:20 PM

BeltFedBrowning
Senior Heliman
Location: Albany, MO USA

Sorry for the scolding, I thought you were serious.
I would agree that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So if you were to stop the blades the helicopter would spin in the opposite direction at head speed probably breaking more than if it were put down without the brake.

01-17-2008 07:08 PM

engineerdestroy
Heliman
Location: Kennesaw, GA - USA

Np man. Yeah, rcaddicts idea seems like a great one to me, as well as the rotor disc break. Helimat, about that passive system...Any ideas about that? I agree 100% when you say it would have to be something automatically activated and putting some sort of electronics onboard to detect a problem would be way to expensive/heavy. Any comments about rcadd1ct's post?

Blade CP Pro

01-17-2008 07:25 PM

HOMEPAGE

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

As has been said before.. you design these things to fly, not to crash. Any of the suggestions made to change the aircraft will by definition compromise the flying capabilities. This is why none of the suggestions have been incorporated in full-size helicopters.

Realistically, flying where it is safe is a way more effective safety measure, even if it sounds facile to suggest it.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,
8m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites

01-18-2008 12:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

lowflyer101
Key Veteran
Location: garden grove, CA

Quote
Build it to fly not crash.....

accident happen all the time. i fly with in my limit, with room to recover

btw, to slow down main blade , how about 90 degree picth on the throttle hold

<-freedoom flyer->

01-18-2008 03:13 PM

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

The sudden load would probably snap at least one blade, resulting in disintegration of the heli.

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,
8m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites

01-18-2008 10:21 PM

HOMEPAGE

TankDirt
Veteran
Location: illinois

Didnt somebody get hit with a freya 90 a little while ago?Im sure the person who got hit(or the one flying)would have loved for the blades to be stopped when it hit.I think its a great idea to have other ways to stop the blades of a heli in flight..It doesnt have to stop instantly,a nice steady(But quick)spool-down would be just as effetive only with out the heli destroying itself.I personally dont think this idea will ever kick off,But I think its a great idea for anybody who flys in their front yard(sorry jk)or in their living rooms.it would slow/top the blades before they ever hit anything.
I think this would make an awsome project.

01-18-2008 11:05 PM

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Of course, thinking outside the square, having a small strong net about a yard square which you could throw at the approaching heli would snare the rotating parts and largely contain the schrapnel.

Anyone seen the movie Gladiators?

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,
8m mast
AP hot air balloon
AP kites

01-19-2008 02:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

engineerdestroy
Heliman
Location: Kennesaw, GA - USA

lol Fishing for helis! Whoever bags the first one with a net gets awarded +10 John McClane points.

Blade CP Pro

01-19-2008 05:27 PM

HOMEPAGE

wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

Whether or not it's a stupid idea all depends on what you're aiming to do.

On my T-Rex 450 you can spool up very quickly if you use an ESC without a soft-start. If you can spool up within a few seconds, you can presumably spool down just as quickly without destroying the frame - the gears, I'm not so sure. On a larger heli I can see this might not be true.

The heli body would start spinning at high speed...

So what? It's got a significant surface area - much more so than the blades. So it will slow down faster. Also it would be better to get hit by the canopy than the blades.

If I land I often use full negative cyclic to slow the rotor faster. Even so, it can retain a lot of energy for a pretty long time. You wouldn't need that much resistance to get it to slow much more quickly.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive

01-20-2008 06:12 AM

bagobitz
Veteran
Location: saddleworth,lancs,UK

As most (all?) heli's have a large reduction gear between motor and rotor, it should be possible to arrange a self-wrapping band-brake to operate on the periphery...it would only need a very lightactuating mechanism. (I envisage a hold-off solenoid and a light tension spring opposing it....power-failure to the solenoid would allow the brake to automatically apply.....but you STILL have the torque-reaction problem to overcome!

there's no easy answer to this one...as stated by others, the way forward appears to centre on flight-worthiness,rather than crashhability.

01-20-2008 05:37 PM

rcadd1ct
Elite Veteran
Location: Richardson, Texas

What about the auto hub? Most rotors free wheel on the main gear unless they are being driven.

-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!

01-20-2008 06:37 PM

DemonJim
New Heliman
Location: Warwickshire - UK

On I.C. helis I reckon there should be special throttle servos available that mechanically spring back to minimum if there is no power to it.

This mechanical failsafe position would be adjustable. This means if power goes (eg a power lead failure from the RX battery) then the engine will automatically throttle hold (or cut if you prefer), vastly reducing potential damage, and also possibly mean you see fewer lengthy funky chicken dances.

The Futaba 9254 tail servo moves really easily when there's no power, so the return-spring can be pretty weak on this sort of servo (so when it gets power it wouldn't take much current to maintain the force against it). You get dedicated tail servos (9254, 9256, BLS251 etc.) so why don't we see dedicated throttle servos?

I'm going to put a 9254 on my throttle on my 600N soon to help improve the governor response and it got me thinking - you could mount a fairly basic return spring onto the frame from the servo arm to achieve the same effect - anyone ever done this?

No power to the radio/servos means a runaway heli which if on full throttle would be seriously lethal - with this system it would be a lot safer (and cheaper). I believe this isn't a new idea (I heard you get this sort of thing on I.C cars) -- I'm just surprised this isn't actually obligatory on I.C. helis - these things are scary enough when someone has control.

01-20-2008 11:01 PM

wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

Now that seems an excellent idea to me...

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive

01-21-2008 10:39 PM

Bill Collins
Senior Heliman
Location: Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

To add a bit.....
I had an Eco8 for a time with the stock 540 can motor. I had the stock gearing setup. There was NO one way bearing. The gear was connected to the mainshaft by a pin. The instructions warned about rapidly stopping the motor. I learned this the hard way when flying. I was just learning how to fly then and was jerky at best. I was hovering at about 1 foot high and it started to get away from me. I immediately pulled the throttle back and wiped the main gear out. Made of nylon/something, it was the weakest link and it said "Goodbye!"
Using the brushless motor was no different. I bought the one way hub for the gear and didn't have any problems with it after that.

The point I think some were trying to make is this:
Don't fly whilst drinking. Clearly stated in the AMA rules.
I understand the "Having a good time" and all, but nothing good comes after "Hey ya'll. Watch this!"
Putting your friends/family in danger by flying at them, near them, around them, etc., is asking for problems. You seem like a nice person trying to protect them, but wouldn't it be easier and smarter to just not fly near them?

Not trying to create an issue, but they needed to be said. I fly safely wherever I fly. I also will not hesitate to say something to an offender if I think they are doing something stupid. This hobby has been getting some negative press recently and this is exactly the sort of stuff the media jumps on. I can see it now........

"One injured as remote controlled helicopter crashes into family. The pilot had been drinking and lost orientation......" You can fill in the rest.

Have fun and fly and show off to your friends. Just keep them away from the heli and if YOU feel like the situation could get hairy, land it and field questions. That's what I do.

No witty signature at this time. Please check back later......

01-23-2008 09:10 PM

coops2
Senior Heliman
Location: New Zealand

this is funny

perhaps make it mandatory for all flyers to carry a double barrell shotgun, you know what to do.......

01-25-2008 09:24 AM

draven
Heliman
Location: las vegas nv usa

A better mouse trap

The disk brakes idea being practical is out there.
If you don't hit throttle hold in time and you find yourself doing the chicken dance to stop rotation. Just grab a t shirt or a big blanket. Leave the disk brakes for rc cars and trucks!!

07-01-2008 06:39 PM

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Safety idea/question...

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