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ZoomsHobbies . HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South

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e-Hirobo SRB Quark - Lepton - XRB Coaxial > Any1 Tried this motor in their Lepton?
 
 
Jafa
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

Quote 
Your maxing the power out of your ESC, to get over 2800. When you could get the same or higher rpm with 20T for less power.... You've exceeded the maximum efficiency zone of the motor.... You're burning too much with less power gain, pretty much reving up an engine beyond the power band, instead of shifting to higher gear.....

There is nothing unusual about running an ESC wide open
We do that all the time to ensure the ESC does not get hot

I could using higher gearing and a lower throttle curve
But with this gearing I am able to make the Axi sag
This will only get worse to the point where it boggs

The power of this motor has been well and truely over stated in my view

I can accept that I'm not in the correct power band for this motor
I was not aware that it's a 3S motor until it arrived
So 4S is certainly reving it past what is likely to be optimal
(but lowering the throttle curve is not the answer either)

Quote 
I don't realy understand the fascination for 11* pitch since 10* is plenty enough for this bird when over 2700rpm. Most 3D maneuver , I noticed, doesn't realy require excessive collective input, but rather good collective management.

So you won't understand why people love to run
the TRex600N at 13 to 14 degrees of collective?
Collective "pop" and also "crack" are the two lastest fads
Both low on the technical ranking and high on the cool meter
(but you do get bored with them)


Lepton | TRex600Nitro | Sceadu | Freya | Avant | Predator Carbon Max
01-24-2008 07:35 AM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

Quote 
So you won't understand why people love to run
the TRex600N at 13 to 14 degrees of collective?
Collective "pop" and also "crack" are the two lastest fads
Both low on the technical ranking and high on the cool meter
(but you do get bored with them)

Believe me I do. I own one...... I'm recomending moderate pitch range, due the size and durability of Lepton main gear.......That's probably the reason why the manual only recomends 8* of pitch for 3D. If you use a motor that have less torque than /8, fine, but watch your HS so you don't bog it and loose the tail......

Quote 
There is nothing unusual about running an ESC wide open
We do that all the time to ensure the ESC does not get hot

Not unusual? Yes.... But, is this the only proper way? No....

Quote 
I could using higher gearing and a lower throttle curve
But with this gearing I am able to make the Axi sag
This will only get worse to the point where it boggs

I use to think that way, until I experimented with different gearing, and have proven that logic is not bullet proof.....

Quote 
I can accept that I'm not in the correct power band for this motor
I was not aware that it's a 3S motor until it arrived
So 4S is certainly reving it past what is likely to be optimal
(but lowering the throttle curve is not the answer either)



Spec sheet shows 4S (5S) heli. Also up to 2500g heli.

Not because 4S was installed, it meant you're running 4S full voltage all the time..... The ESC in gov mode is only using enough voltage to maintain target rpm on the motor. The extra voltage is being applied during heavy loading.... That's why I prefer gov mode over manual throtle...... If set up right, power is more consistent, and efficient.....

There is actually a logic behind this..... It requires a lot more effort to push a car into motion than pushing it when it's already moving. Same with the rotorhead. Easier for the ESC to maintain HS than move the HS back to target, when the HS was already bogged down too low. We want the motor in the efficient power band during loading. Key word efficient. Less energy consumed per power produced.

When over the power band. You're consuming too much energy for less per power produced. Load the head then HS drop. Motor on the power band HS stabilize. But lesser than target HS. Giving the impression that it's bogging...... Motor evidently runs hot, and probably have shorter life.....
01-24-2008 02:14 PM
 
 
husafreak
Senior Heliman
Location: NorCal

Ah, the weather has been bad. Haven't tried 19t yet. I'm holding onto my Kora -14 though. When I wear out these three 4s packs I'm going to 5 or 6s. As long as I can get 5 min.
01-26-2008 06:37 AM
 
 
U.S.U.L
Senior Heliman
Location: Poland

Guys You should try Axi 2826/12 with 19T pinion and 6s 2500mAh battery pack! I have never seen such a powerful ep heli in my life until i tried this configuration HS i about 3000rpm not to mention the sound motor generates alone, scarrry It does tic tocs in a blink of my eye and the cyclic is extremely fast too with carbon paddles form sjm500pro. The only drawback is that it gets hot really fast but that can be solved with additional fan You can get from Model Motors(made mine out of fiberglass).
01-27-2008 12:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I'm experimenting with another AXi motor using 400mm MAH blades. I was able to do test flights yesterday snd today.

I din't have much luck with the 3S set up. HS speed could only go as high as 2650rpm plus the head was bogging too quick and can't even do tic toc. The tail was holding very well though with the help of HDX 13T pulley that I modified to fit the Lepton. That pulley alone could load the motor pretty hard that on the bench without the main blades there is noticeably great amount of rpm lost when giving rudder input. So, I gave up the idea of "3S 3d Lepton".

4S I said to myself was next to be tried. I made the calculations some time ago. And I even ordered 4 different T500 pinions, hoping one of those pinions would put the HS on my target 2700-3000rpm. But thsoe pinions won't even reach the main gear I found out, unless I modified the motor mount. Too much work I said to myself Maybe some other time. But for now, I said, I'll just use the 2826/8. But then, just for the heck of it I said why don't I try 4S with this pinion (when I was testing 3S, I started from 20T down to 18T. Since 18T was already on there, might as well try it before I remove that motor, just to see what's gonna what's gonna happen).

I crank the throtle curve down to 75% straight across. ESC's set for governor mode. Spooled up, and when the rpm was not increasing anymore, I tached it. I was amazed at what I've seen..... 3250rpm.... I hovered it and the rpm seems not changing...... The tail become too sensitive.... It was wagging on piruete stops..... Remember the 13T pulley was still on....... I set it down, I want to do a different test..... I gave it 1/4 stick position.... That position have set up to have -6* collective...... I tached it.... And the rpm still reads 3200rpm...... I stood back and gave it full low stick...... RPM drop some then stabilized, yet still there's power... Back to midstick, then full negative again several times..... The HS recovery was very quick, no hesitaion..... I put it to hover again and started pitch pumping...... This thing could jump from 1ft hover to 15ft high at a blink of an eye...... 4min 30sec alarm on the timer went off, so I landed...... Time to jot down final readings on the watt meter.....

Motor: AXi 2820/8, 1500kv, 3S-4S on Heli
Battery: FP Evo20 4S 3700mah
Main blades: MAH 400mm
Flying weight: 1580grams

Watt Meter Readings:
825.3W peak
2.2Ah used
62.15A peak
13.26V lowest voltage drop
15.01V battery pack static voltage after 4min 30sec (that translate to 3.75V per cell)

3700mah, 80% of which is 2960mah. This particular test consumed 2.2Ah within 4 1/2min.... If the heli was to be flown in full 3D flight, this setup is good for 4min.

There were some readings I made during the test..... At idle 0* collective while sitting on the ground, amp draw was 18A.... When I hovered it then set it on the ground, watt meter recorded 26A.... 1/4 stick -6*, while siting on the ground, amp draw was 34A.... And, of course that 62.15A reading above was from full collective (collective pitch set at +-10*).....

I made another test this time lowering the throtle to 70%....... HS flatten to 3000rpm. Amp draw in every aspect except for the peak, went higher..... So that, I guess, means, for this set up, 3200rpm is the most efficient rpm...... This test lasted 2min only..... Little did I know the main gear got stripped...... So it'll be a few days when I recieved the gear I ordered before I could see how it would be like in 3D flight..... By that time it will be tested without the HDX 13T pulley....... And that should lower the amp draw a bit, tame the tail, and maybe lessen the chance the main gear getting stripped again.......
02-02-2008 02:37 AM
 
 
husafreak
Senior Heliman
Location: NorCal

1500 Kv! I do like the idea of 400 mm blades though. I think the Lepton on 4s could be awesome and you are on the right track to find a high rpm setup that doesn't bog. Thanks.
02-03-2008 09:16 PM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

OK, the set up is a no go.... I was expecting better...... But instead worse....... I get to test hover the motor again..... With the 13T pulley removed..... It's even drawing more amps..... Didn't fix the wagging on the tail either...... And it's vibrating a lot.... So I guess I'm going back to 2826/8 instead...... This one doesn't bog like the 2820..... Seems over 2800rpm HS is not good on the Lepton..... So I'm gonna contain the HS within 2700-2800rpm..... The most important thing is for it not to bog, so the tail won't blow out.......
02-07-2008 12:24 AM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

Got vids with watt meter attached. 2826/8 motor with 18T pinion. 2800rpm on the head. Barely consumed 2000mah in 4min flight. But the vids will show readings on the watt meter. So there's no need for me to type details......

03-01-2008 05:20 PM
 
 
husafreak
Senior Heliman
Location: NorCal

Hey, great job! I have been having a blast with my Lepton with AXI 2826/8 and 18t pinion. I'm just psyched it's not bogging and spinning anymore! Those MAH 400 blades seem perfect what is a QJ8 tail blade?
03-02-2008 05:05 AM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

Hey, Thanks.... I'm working on making a better video to show how well it flies in this 4S set up, in full 3D flight.... We're gonna spank this kid,,,hehe....

Quote 
what is a QJ8 tail blade?

QJ8 Is Quick of Japan RC Heli. 8 is their designation for 500 size. Sort of like Logo10 and Logo14 for .30 and .50 size Logo.... I got picture of it in my gallery....... The tail blades BTW is only 65mm from hole to tip..... But owing to its shape, it produce very good thrust..... Link below is where you could get it from.....

http://www.helicopterhobbies.com/N_QJ8EX.htm
03-02-2008 01:04 PM
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

Hi Tailboomstrike,

Can you also share what servos you are using for cyclic.

Thanks, Fernando.
03-03-2008 08:52 AM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

Good old Airtronics 94761 (known as Sanwa 762 in other country)....

Some people don't like it due to their dicriminating attitude over "Made in China"...... I only tried this servoes..... And don't intend to try anything else for this bird...... The sad thing is that, it's now hard to find here in the US...... The replacement gear set doesn't include the output gear which is nowhere to be found in the US either.......
03-03-2008 02:05 PM
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

despite where they are made, Sanwa has always been one of the main Japanese RC brands. Your loved Hirobo Lepton has a patented ECCPM (SWM)that was originally made by Sanwa. Where do you think that SW is coming from.
Futaba servos are also made in china nowadays....
03-03-2008 08:36 PM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

Ferdie,

I know about that..... I've read that from Hirobo site itself..... Only that, I think it was refering to the single shaft swash mechanism.....
03-03-2008 08:46 PM
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

Tail,
I am about to get my second Lepton and would like to get those Sanwa. My first one has 9650 but I had to mod the chasis, a bit of a pain. Where do you think I could get those?? They look very good in your videos
03-03-2008 08:54 PM
 
 
Fernando
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid

Hi Tail again I found sdx755, would it be the same??
03-03-2008 09:04 PM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=3925

I've just looked it up in google search. That's the only site that have them in stock....
03-03-2008 09:04 PM
 
 
husafreak
Senior Heliman
Location: NorCal

I also have the Airtronics servos, they are great servos. I got mine from Tower but as you say, they are out of stock. I have some car radios for my kids that I bought in Japan that say "Sanwa" on the label and also some Sanwa servo's from when I lived in Japan. Of course here they rebadge to Airtronics.
03-03-2008 10:54 PM
 
 
Tail_BoomStrike
Veteran
Location: Virginia Beach

I looked up on the spec of that sdx755. The dimension is more like a full size servo..... So basically not the same.....

husafreak

I'm running mine on 5.8v now with CC BEC..... That together with DX7, it is amazingly fast..... The response is almost instantaneous....
03-04-2008 01:30 AM
 
 
Cybinary
Senior Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX

Well, I finished upgrading my Lepton to 5S this week. Took it out for a maiden yesterday....WOW What a difference.

So much more pop, so much more power just waiting to be relieased!

Here is my setup now...
Hacker A30-12XL w/ 21t Revco Pinion
CC 60Amp ESC
Herculeas 5/6v HC BEC
FlightPower EVO25 5s 3300Mah
HeadSpeed (Still fine tuning this) 2700-2800

I hovered it for 3-4 Mins yesterday while the wife was taching it and after the motor was just slightly warm, while both ESC/BEC felt cool!

I think Im really gonna like this setup!! Thanks for the help guys!

"Gravity is a Harsh Mistress!"
Lepton EX Fully BLINGed
03-20-2008 10:49 PM
 
 
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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . MRC/Altech Marketing USA

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e-Hirobo SRB Quark - Lepton - XRB Coaxial > Any1 Tried this motor in their Lepton?
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