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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Initial Setup...
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Last night I (finally) finshed getting the ESC, gyro, receiver and servos mounted in my KIng II so that the heli blances when I suspend it by the flybar.

I went through and balanced the head and blades, checked all fasteners, ensured that wires won't get caught or bind anything, etc.

Now I'm trying to get the head setup for the proper pitch range. Radio is setup according to the parameters that TRyan provided for my Fut T9CHP.

And by the way - much thanks to Doug for providing blade screws and nuts that the mfg left out of the kit.

This is the part where I got fustrated on my last Heli and started losing interest so this time I want to make sure I'm doing it right.

First of what will likely be several questions:

When I set up the servo links I set the servo arms to align 90 degrees to the case at neutral (straight out) and adjust the links until the head is level with the skids - correct?

I'm not sure about the tail rotor...I'm using a a HH gyro which I think is confusing things for me. What I did is take the gyro out and plug the tail servo direct to the receiver's ch4. Servo arm was at center when ch4 on tx was centered. I then slid the servo back/forth until the leading edge of the rotor blade pointed about 10 degrees to the heli's portside. I then tightened up the servo and put the gyro back in the circuit. Was this correct?

And the paddle pitch should match the blade pitch - correct?

Thanks
01-10-2008 01:59 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Ok - what I have now is the paddles flat at mid-stick. Blade pitch at mid-stick is 0. Full pitch range is limited to about -1 at throttle bottom and +5 at throttle top. So it looks like I need to expand the range. All end-points are at 100%, so I'm not sure how to get the range wider...

Still researching web-tutorials.....
01-10-2008 03:18 PM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

To get the range wider you can go into the swash menu and adjust the P or pitch setting. Set your throttle stick to full throttle and increase the pitch setting until your blades are at +10* IF everything is correct you should have -10* pitch when at low throttle and idleup1...

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-10-2008 03:47 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Thanks - that helps.
To make sure I understand correctly; the swashplate should be level and servo arms shouldbe at 90* at mid-stick. Correct?
01-10-2008 04:34 PM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

Yes that is correct, don't use any trim to get that setup correctly.

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-10-2008 04:38 PM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

Here is a post from the trex forum that I was reading last nite from Dkshema It will explain the entire setup and programing for a ccpm head...
GENERIC CCPM SETUP:

It's based on a JR radio (DX7 is the same) -- as far as channel assignments, but for whatever brand radio -- the receiver plugs are labeled Aileron, Elevator, and collective pitch is usually the AUX 1 channel.

Typical 120 degree CCPM Setup:

Plug your servos into the correct channel on the RX. You have three servos controlling the swashplate. One connects to either the front or the rear of the swash, the other two are 120 degrees apart, on either side of the heli's centerline.

The servo connected to the ball that is in-line with the heli centerline (either fore, or aft of the MR shaft) is the "Elevator" servo, and plugs into the ELEVATOR channel of your RX (in a JR/DX7 system the servo plugs into RX channel 3).

One of the remaining servos that controls one "side" of the swashplate (it doesn't really matter at this point) plugs into the Aileron channel of the RX (RX Channel 2 for a JR/DX7 system).

The third servo which drives the other "side" of the swashplate plugs into the PITCH channel of the RX, generally the AUX 1 channel (channel 6 in a JR/DX7 system).

Select the 120 degree swash CCPM mix in your TX. Set all trim settings to zero, no trim in any direction. Go to the SWASH mix menu, and set ELEVATOR, AILERON, and PITCH numbers to +65. This is only a starting point, we'll fix the SIGN of the number (+/-), and the SIZE of the number (bigger/smaller) later on down the page.

Ignore the direction of the servos for now. We're about to fix that:

Two servos in CCPM mix tilt the swash left and right. All three servos tilt the swashplate fore and aft.

Go to your servo reversing menu.

The two servos that tilt the swashplate for left and right will be the servos plugged into the aileron and pitch (auxiliary 1, probably) channel.

Using the servo reversing function, make these two servos move such that if you command a left turn, one moves up, the other moves down. Don't worry if they don't seem to move the correct direction, just make sure that they go in opposite directions when you move the stick left and right.

Now, move the stick for fore/aft cyclic. The servo connected to the elevator channel on the RX needs to have its direction set so that when the pitch and aileron servo move UP together, the elevator servo moves down (and when the elevator servo moves up, the other two move down). Use the elevator reversing function to make this happen.

Now you have the aileron and pitch servo moving in opposite directions for left and right stick, and you have the aileron and pitch servo moving in the same direction as each other, but in opposite direction of the elevator servo for the fore/aft function.

Don't touch the reversing switches again. Leave them where they are. We'll now fix the function direction so the swash moves in the right direction with regard to the sticks.

Go to the swash mix menu -- the one that lets you set the aileron, pitch, and elevator mix percentages.

Move the aileron stick left and right. If the swashplate moves in the correct direction, the aileron mix is OK. If the swash tilts left when you command right (backwards from the stick), then reverse the "polarity" of your aileron mix number. If you have +65 selected, change it to -65 (and if you have -65 selected, change it to + 65). Changing from "+" to "-" (or "-" to "+" reverses the aileron direction in a CCPM setup. The actual VALUE of the number increases (bigger number) or decreases (smaller number) the amount of travel you get from the associated function.

Move the elevator stick forward. If the swash tilts in the correct direction, fine. If the swash tilts the wrong direction (back when you command forward, for example), change the "polarity" of the elevator function -- if you have "-65" set, change it to "+65" ( and vice versa). This reverses the fore/aft cyclic function in a CCPM setup.

Move the throttle stick full open. You should get more positive pitch (leading edges of the blades tilt up). If the collective pitch is backwards (you get negative pitch when you command full positive) then reverse the "polarity" of the pitch mix -- if you have it set to "-65", set it to "+65" (and vice versa). This is how you reverse the pitch function in a CCPM setup.

Playing musical chairs with the servo reversing function at the same time you mess around with the swash mix will drive you nuts.

With a linear 0 to 100% pitch curve, set your collective stick to its midway setting (middle). The three servo arms controlling the swash should be in the middle of their travel range. Due to the way the splines on the servo shafts are designed, you'll have to try different positions of the servo arms on the shaft to achieve this. In addition, you may also need to mess with sub trim to get the servo centered with the collective at its midpoint. The arms are either going to be horizontal or vertical, depending upon servo arrangement.

The swash should be horizontal, and perpendicular to the MR shaft. Adjust the pushrods supporting the swashplate to make this happen.

At this setting, your blades should have ZERO pitch, the washout arms and the pitch mixing levers should be horizontal. Adjust pushrods to achieve this setting. The pushrods up on the head generally go in pairs. Make each pushrod in a pair the same length -- follow the helicopter build instructions to get the proper length of each pair of pushrods.

The swash should be in the middle of its up and down travel distance at this setting. Adjust the pushrods supporting the swashplate to achieve this setting.

So, with a linear pitch curve, at mid collective, the swash is level, the servo arms are in the middle of their travel range, the washout and pitch mixing levers are horizontal, the swash is in the middle of its travel range and the blade pitch is zero degrees (check both blades and adjust as necessary).

At this point you can select the various flight modes you are going to use and customize your pitch curve settings to match the flight mode.

If you need more overall COLLECTIVE pitch travel, increase the value of the number in the PITCH mix menu for the CCPM swash setting. If you need less overall pitch travel, decrease the value of the number in the PITCH mix menu for the CCPM swash setting.

If you need more Aileron CYCLIC pitch, increase the size of the AILERON number in the swash mix menu. If you need less Aileron CYCLIC pitch, then make the AILERON number in the swash mix menu smaller.

If you need more Elevator CYCLIC pitch, increase the size of the ELEVATOR number in the swash mix menu. If you need less ELEVATOR CYCLIC pitch, then make the ELEVATOR number in the swash mix menu smaller.

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-10-2008 04:41 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

I think it's done.
-2 at low stick, +10 at top stick, 0 at center w/ all servo arms at 90*. Checked carefully for any binding or slop and all seems to be ok.

Now to iron the tail out. Seems to be close, ran the motor up just before the heli gets light and the tail stays put. Might have to actually get it into a hover to fine tune it any more.

I have the 1800mA battery, and AUW of the heli is 17oz. Curious as to how this weight compares with others. Anyone?
01-10-2008 11:26 PM
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Im sitting at 1 lb 1 oz at flying weight 1500mah pack 17.6oz thats with cnc head and 1500mah pack.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
01-11-2008 01:05 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sgt Heli
Veteran
Location: Remlap, Al USA

Needed that setup info, thanks.
01-11-2008 01:17 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

Glad it helped someone out...... You can thank DKshema for the post...

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-11-2008 01:40 AM
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

How do you setup a king to outfly a TREX?

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
01-11-2008 02:14 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

You can't??????

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-11-2008 02:20 AM
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

Quote 
How do you setup a king to outfly a TREX?

take it out of the box and spool it up

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST
01-11-2008 03:16 AM
 
 
yongary
Senior Heliman
Location: Lafayette, Indiana

Does the throttle trim on the tx have to be in the middle position also?
01-11-2008 04:42 AM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

I have 0 pitch at mid-stick, but from a dead-start I have to throttle up to about 3/4 stick before the heli gets light and starts to roll on it training wheels. Should I get it to lift at mid-stick or is it common to need extra to get airborne, then lower the stick to maintain a hover?

Not sure if it'll actually hover at mid-stick yet. It's sleeting outside and I'm playing the in the house - taking this one step at a time so I don't put the heli into the wife's china cabinet.

Also a question regarding the throttle type on my Phoenix ESC. With it I have two choices - auto calibrating and fixed modes.

Manual says that the "auto-calibrating" type is NOT for helis.
It then says that helis should use "fixed" because the transmitter is using predetermined throttle curves and that the ESC uses "normally accepted" endpoints. It then goes on to say that some TX throttle signals are outside these normal values - and that you should then chose auto-calibrating mode.

Reason I ask is that the RED light on my ESC comes on at about 3/4 stick. My throttle curve in the tx is linear (0,25,50,75,100) so I'm maxing out at 75%.

Advice?
01-11-2008 02:23 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Just got my tach working...headspeed at mid-stick is 1900. Is this typical?
01-11-2008 02:32 PM
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

have you calibrated the esc??....most good esc's have a calibration function at the set up mode that allows you to set the high and low throttle points by moving the stick from low to high so the esc reads these points........and yes....with a proper set up, the heli should hover at about 3/4 throttle,maybe a little less.......you can set it to hover at mid stick but if you want to advance past anything but hovering fly with the proper set up now and get used to it from the beginning

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST
01-11-2008 02:35 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Quote 
with a proper set up, the heli should hover at about 3/4 throttle,maybe a little less.......you can set it to hover at mid stick but if you want to advance past anything but hovering fly with the proper set up now and get used to it from the beginning



Proper setup: yep, that accounts for all the time I'm putting into it. Started yesterday morning - still trying to get it right today.

Hovering at mid-stick isn't proper setup? Could sworn that I was either told that or read it somewhere.

Auto-calibrate is the closest thing to a calibration mode I guess. It's not done at setup though. It's done each time the ESC is fired up. You have to hold full throttle for 4 sec and it take the max position for that.
01-11-2008 02:46 PM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

The "proper" setup is to always use 0* pitch at mid stick, the reason for this is when you start using idle up mode mid stick is where you are going to switch modes and the heli will only change headspeed and not pitch when the switch is flipped up or down... Also keeping your upper or positive pitch curves the same is important too so there are no drastic pitch changes when flipping in and out of idle up mode.... As your flying skills progress you can change the pitch curves to meet your requirements but being consistant in the begining is easier on you to deal with...

Tom..... No "D" flying....
01-11-2008 03:47 PM
 
 
Jerry In Maine
Senior Heliman
Location: "Downeast" Maine

Clarify something for me please. At what point on the stick should it leave the ground, if

Quote 
....with a proper set up, the heli should hover at about 3/4 throttle,maybe a little less......

Since my pitch curves correct according to what I read here (-2, 0, 10) I must then have an issue with the throttle curve - or the ESC/motor - since at 3/4 throttle the heli just starts to get light on it's skids.
01-11-2008 04:31 PM
 
 
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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Initial Setup...
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