RunRyder - Blade Tracking, Again............URGH! - SOLVED!

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Blade Tracking, Again............URGH! - SOLVED!

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

I tried that when I had the problem thats the only way I got it down to a 1/2 inch.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.

01-02-2008 02:52 AM

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Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Tryan, good tip on swapping the blades. That might help confirm the health of the head

Quote
Have you tried adjusting the tracking with each link instead of just working with one?

So there are total of 4 ball links involved. Two on each link. One link per blade. All four ball links have been adjusted with the same result, a 1 inch swing. It just seems crazy to me that Esky designed the head without a finer adjustment. Or perhaps there is something bent damaged that just haven't found.

01-02-2008 04:39 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Update from today's work

Here's the update from today's efforts. I stopped by a few LHS to look for some turnbuckles. I know, I know, a long shot. And it turned out to be just that. The trip wasn't completely pointless. I did discover that the Eflite mafia is getting the Blade 400 parts in stock all over the place. Yes, they need to keep the cost monster well fed. Anyway, I digress. There was a bright side to the Eflight parts story. As it turns out that some of the Blade 400 parts look like they'd fit our beloved HBK2. So I picked up some ball links sets just to try them out. With all the tracking adjusting I'm doing, my ball links are getting a little sloppy from on that on/off action.

Sadly, even though the new links fit perfectly, they didn't help, at all. I then spent alot of time going over the head. I took the blade grips out, replaced the feathering shaft. It wasn't bent, but I have a few in stock, so what the heck. I also went over every washer, bearing and nut. I also took out the large washers that were serving as a damper bypass. I was reading through the Blade 400 manual and there were some interesting comments that if the dampers are too stiff it can cause wobbling during flight. Anyway, they are there for a reason so I thought I'd put them back. I also took Tryan's advice and added a shim between the damper and the washer that faces the bearing. That seemed to allow the feathering shaft nuts to be snugged down tight enough without causing binding.

After all was said and done, there was really no improvement. I was about to say I'm no further along toward a solution but it simply isn't true. I'm done fiddling with what I've got and am now ready to order parts. I'm really hesitant to throw 100 purple dollars at the problem for a number of reasons. First off, with XMAS just behind us, it’s really a bad time for additional discretionary spending. But more importantly, I’d like to milk this issue for as educational value as I can tolerate. So I went ahead and ordered the turnbuckles. If those don’t work, I'll get the purple head.

01-03-2008 05:18 AM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

I think the turnbuckles will certainlly help the situation. Also the stock King blades will sometimes a slight bend in them or at least one of the two will. Put an eyeball on the end of the blades and sight it the long way and see if they are perfectly straight. Another thing I noticed when I had the stock plastic head was that the swashplate would develop slop even though it looked like it was in perfect condition. A lot of us tend to look higher up on the head "tree" for the source of tracking problems.
If you don't want to spend the doe for all the "purple stuff" right now maybe just try a CNC swashplate. It's only 20 buckaroos at Jags.

01-03-2008 11:50 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Yes, I noticed the slop in the swashplate. Its between the brass ball and the main shaft. While not good, I didn't think it should affect blade tracking. Cyclic yes, but not tracking.

I have 4 sets of blades. 3 woodies and 1 CF. All sets have been examined for straightness, as well as balanced. Of the 6 total wood blades, one is warped. The other 5 are fine. Of course the CF blades are spot on. The tracking issue occurs with my CF blades as well as my woodies.

01-03-2008 04:45 PM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Gregor, Don't eliminate the swashplate completely as source of tracking issues. Its all connected, remember it's cyclic collective pitch mixing and everything has to work together to change pitch while spinning. My friend mark had tracking problems and tried everything and replaced almost everything and the problem never went away completely until the swash was replaced. Also another thing that is easy to overlook is the part of the plastic blade grip that is right next to the center hub sometimes wears unevenly, and if it is too close to the hub and uneven the pitch might change unevenly. I don't know if that makes any sense to you but sometimes the littlest thing can have a great affect.

01-03-2008 06:13 PM

shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

This may be a long shot, but we seem to have eliminated all the short ones.

I was having an issue with tracking and drift (more drift than tracking, but anyway...). I bypassed the esc, turned the tx on, and plugged in the heli. Switched to idle, centered the throttle.

SLLLOOOWWWLLLY moved the stick all the way up and down and watched the swash.

One servo was moving a bit differently than the rest, causing the swashplate to tilt at certain points in its travel. New servos eliminated both problems.

Like I said - long shot. But it's worth checking.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.

01-03-2008 06:25 PM

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Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

I won't completely dismiss the swash idea and since I'm headed the purple direction anyway, I might just get it to try it out. I'll add that Tryan still had his tracking issue after adding the metal swash, but so I'm not optimistic. The blade grips are a good idea and one of the few possible items that has not been replaced. However they have been inspected carefully and show no signs of stress fracture, or uneven wear. They are inexpensive so it might be worth it to try out a second set anyway.

shizack,
Thanks, good thoughts. The servo and swash movement has been checked maybe a half a dozen times, with and without the motor powered.

01-03-2008 10:59 PM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Gregor, You are quite meticulous, you may never be happy till you achieve CNC tightness and precisian.( It will require actual CNC stuff)

01-03-2008 11:07 PM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Here's today's update. I have some good news and some bad news. First the good news. The new turnbuckles arrived and they are gorgeous. Here's the package with one of the old ones for comparison.

The kit included these simple instructions along with an adjustment tool that was small chromed wire with 90 degree bend.

Installation of the ball links was harder than I expected. The fit is very very tight and you have to remember that one of the set of threads goes the oposite direction. You can see pictured on the right that not only do you get finer grained control from not relying on a half turn of the ball links, but the threads are much much finer than the stock links. Something like 2:1. So half a turn on the stock links is about a full turn (guessing here) on the new turnbuckles.

Here they are installed. It turns out the ball links are so tight on the shaft, that turning the shaft causes the links to pop off the balls. The ball links were new so they aren't it wasn't due to slop. I spent some time loosening them up. But one side is still pretty firm.

The new links are very nice and did help me get my tracking closer. I was able to get the tracking dead on at low and mid throttle, something I could not do with the stock links. That's the bad news. Once past about mid-stick and the blades would seperate. No amount of tweaking the turnbuckles could correct it.

Meanwhile gaanel was feeding me more thoughts offline. The one thing he had said that I was trying to avoid is to lower the headspeed. I've been running 10t with the 3800 Esky motor, so somewhere over 2000. It calculates out to 2410 so actual probably closer to 2000 or 2100. I dropped down to a 9t which caluculates out to 2169, so figure probably 1800 actual. The reduced headspeed helped alot. Going to 100% will still cause some seperation, but my throttle curves have me closer to 80% to 90% throttle most of the time. I guess those higher headspeeds will have to wait for the purple head.

With the reduced headspeed and new turnbuckles, tracking is still not perfect but its far better than it was. At least for my head with its current state of wear and sloppiness a 9t is about all the plastic can handle. As Doug points out, I don't think I'm ever going to be happy with the plastic head. Now that the tracking is close, its on to the tail vibration. With the tracking off, it causes quite a vibration in the entire heli. I was hoping that curing that would also solve the small tail vibration that I've been fighting since day one. No such luck. But that's a topic for another thread.

01-13-2008 02:08 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Well, I wish I had better news, but the blade tracking only lasted about 5 batteries, then it was off again. This followed by the usual session of getting on my knees in the garage. I can't wait to see what you guys say to that. After a number of adjustment attempts, I got the tracking back.

I will say that I don't care for the reduced headspeed. Seems like the motor tends to bog more and the collective seems a hard to control.

At this point I think I need either a new head, or a new head mechanic. Maybe both. I'm tempted to order a new plastic head. Well, only the pieces that were not replaced in the last week. However, I've already spent a little too much free time working on the heli and not enough time flying. I'll most likely just get the CNC head and hopefully spend more time in the air.

01-14-2008 12:08 AM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Fantastic pictures as usual Gregor. You are really being tested by the heli-gods with the tracking and vibrations, tormented almost

01-14-2008 12:24 AM

Blusaber
Veteran
Location: Ca

Head

Gregor

If you would like it PM me your addy and I'll send you my complete stock plastic head which had very little tracking issues. Still has a good main shaft. flybar and paddles on it on it so all you'd have to do is drop her in and add blades. As far as that goes I could throw the balanced wood blades I had on it in there too. Let me know

Gary

01-14-2008 12:51 AM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Gary, That sure is nice of you.

Gregor, How often do you get an offer of free head ????

I ask with great relish.

01-14-2008 12:55 AM

fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

this started out great but its getting a little weird now

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST

01-14-2008 12:59 AM

Blusaber
Veteran
Location: Ca

LMAO

Sheeesh Doug when ya put it that way I'm not so sure it's a good thing LOL

Gary

01-14-2008 01:00 AM

Daltuch
Heliman
Location: Seattle WA

It must be fairly common recently I've been having problems with my blade tracking too no matter what I turn it's always somewhat off at the higher speeds.

01-14-2008 01:00 AM

Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Gary, wow! What a generous offer! What a great forum this is! I'll send you some mail shortly.

01-14-2008 01:03 AM

fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

I'm starting to think its quality control of the main blades....some of them do seem to be a little"off".....I haven't had any problems myself...but the main variable here is blades...the head parts are pretty consistent from heli to heli.....people that are using better blades or carbons....how is your tracking?????

PerformancePlusRC field rep
COMPASS helis field rep
Mini Titan/SE
HBK2
Futaba FASST

01-14-2008 01:05 AM

DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

No doubt Fender, when I was using the plastic head, tracking was ALWAYS better with carbons.

01-14-2008 01:10 AM

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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Blade Tracking, Again............URGH! - SOLVED!

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