RunRyder - I nominate this as dangerous vid of the year.

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ZoomsHobbies	.	HeliHobby	.	Ron’s HeliProz South
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > I nominate this as dangerous vid of the year.

Mark C
Key Veteran
Location: Houston, TX - USA

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MarkC, It is unfortunate, but I am afraid you are not grasping the point and you seem to be taking this personally. I suggest that it is you who is not taking the time to read things clearly.

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That is the point, MarkC. I hope you can begin to see it. I was "very clear" in my assertions. You have told me to re-read your post, but it appears you did not even take the time to finish reading mine. Were you simply in a rush to hit your keyboard? Becoming part of what you identify as the

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eversoridiculous keyboard jury

Amazing. You claim that I "seem to be taking this personally" and then you continue to make comments like the second one.

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Many newbies looking at that video will get the wrong message

If you showed a video of JK flying out in an open field newbies would still form their opinions on where they could fly it. I cannot count the number of newbies that are interested in getting their hands on a 450 T-Rex so they can fly it around their living room.

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Many politicains or lawmakers looking at that video during a court brief on RChelis (after-the-fact of some accident) will get the wrong message. And, because it is Align and JK, we cannot even discredit the video as some unknown dork taking risks and posting on YouTube.

When you read that statement yourself again can't you see the ring of paranoia all over it? Do you really picture a senate special committee hearing where they are all watch JK fly on a projection screen TV in the front of a stadium sized courtroom? Our realities are certainly different - yours and mine.

Even if such an event did happen one day they would only be watching a video of someone flying a toy helicopter out in front of their house without incident. Nothing to see here. Some who view the video may perceive it as dangerous some will not - just like the keyboard jury here.

What you don't seem to get is that I understood your point pages ago. I understood CJames's point pages ago. I don't think there is anyone here who's point I didn't understand. Many folks here understand my point. I'm sure even CJames got his head around it and bowed out but since you are still here on your soap box saying the same thing over and over again and even re-posting your own quotes let me lay it out for you as simple as I possibly can:

If you want your rights to fly legislated, controlled and policed then simply continue to stand on your soapbox and continue to draw attention.

If you continue to troll through sites and bring back videos that you find that you perceive as dangerous and post them here on this public forum in order to draw support for your cause and then continue to jump up and down pressing your point all the while claiming that you don't want regulation or control you will likely succeed in shooting off your own foot.

There are laws forbidding the discharge of fireworks where I live nevertheless the skies will be filled with them in a couple of days. There are laws forbidding the discharge of firearms within the city limits of Houston where my mother still lives yet there is damage to her carport and roof from celebratory gunfire that occurs in her area. Although there are regulations in my area about air guns and BB rifles one of my windows in my house has an obvious BB gun strike.

In the end the laws and regulations affect good citizens like you and I. All others that have disregard for the laws or safety will continue to do as they please.

In the end I won't be able to legally teach my kids how to hover in the back yard. Not because JK flew his in front of his house without hurting anyone, but because the self righteous safety trolls didn't know when to shut the hell up about it.

Next time around send JK a personal message. Your make your points clear and I'd bet JK could get his head around them. Even if he did not agree with your assessment, enough emails and he might get the point and remove the video. It is a HELL of a lot healthier to the hobby than dragging it out in public on this forum. This thread offers nothing and I mean NOTHING positive for this hobby.

So I will do you this favor - I will unsubscribe from this topic and not post anymore. But please do me and YOURSELF a favor: Post one more time if you can't control the urge but then please shut the hell up about it. Get off the soap box and stop drawing attention to it.

Over and out.

Mark C.

12-28-2007 06:07 PM

rchelichop
Senior Heliman
Location: Valencia

Needless to say, amazed at the support this type of flying has gotten, speechless to say the least. Very sad to see so many disillusioned flyers so complacent, I feel it may only a matter of time as more and more of these new 'non-dangerous' electrics get in the hands of these carefree flyers and an accident happens. Let me make this clear, this is not-doomsaying, but a fact, keep doing risky activities over and over and something wrong is bound to happen at least once.

Comparing flying to helis to a lawnmower is about the funniest thing I've ever read on here.

Comparing a rc heli flying around to a full size aircraft is fairly lame too. Aircraft are regulated to high heaven, have strict maintenance guidelines, have designated airports ect ect. You ever see a jumbo jet taking off a freeway cause they don't feel like flying all the way to the airport?

I really like the argument that bringing this up is actually going to hurt the hobby and if we just be quiet it will go away and no one will get hurt, wow, do you work for the government? if not you really should look into that.

Also, as you state, flyers of micros already want to fly in their houses and stuff, this type of thing will only help foster and confirm that desire. But hey, its ok, lets just not talk about it right, it'll go away

Most of your 'points' are tiring and just trying to hard anyway.

Again, everyeone of the arguments in this flyers defense are lamo-o to the max. Be safe fly with your head screwed on straight and don't fly in neighborhoods like this, this is not smart move and it IS dangerous, no matter how much you try to mitigate it.

12-28-2007 07:19 PM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

For the small minded
When comparing Lawnmower dangers these include the chance of stones being thrown from underneath it, it also includes the danger of cutting blades.
It does not mean that lawnmowers are flying.
Perhaps it is not the best example but it should be sufficient.

There many examples of household items that have potential danger but are still used every day.
How many of you charge your lipo's in the house? even though you have kids,
How many of you store nitro in your home or other dangerous chemicals
while your kids sleep at night.

The point is although we use potentialy dangerous products that may affect our neighbors or ourselves on a daily basis does not proclude that we as a whole are not willing to take these risks.

If you don't feel safe you should take the necessary steps to secure your safety.
You decide where you want to live.
If you live near a gun range and don't feel safe, you move.
If you fear your neighbors, you move.
If your neighborhood has alot helicopters flying around, You should move.
If you live near an airport and don't like the noise, you move.

You decide what community you live in. Why should anyone have the right to impose their will on others.
If you don't like the party Leave.

.

12-28-2007 08:18 PM

whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

I take it you feel that flying rc in a residential area is a good thing?

Mike

12-28-2007 08:27 PM

Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

Over 200,000 Trex 450 were sold the last couple of years....
How many you think actually make it to a AMA or MAAC certified field.
If you were not allowed to fly in residential neighborhoods I think the sales would be a lot lower! I think a lot of people get these smaller helis just for that reason

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos

12-28-2007 09:57 PM

rchelichop
Senior Heliman
Location: Valencia

Yep, and you can go to youtube and others to watch all the smart flyers learning in their homes and neighborhoods and crashing into things and getting all cut up. So, now we need those morons getting a larger heli and flying around in neighborhoods?, NO THANKS!

12-28-2007 10:31 PM

irocu88
Senior Heliman
Location: norfolk,va

First of all depending on what state you are in it is not legal to fly in most(if not all) residential areas ( go figure) but, there is a difference between flying alone in a field near a residential area and flying within a few feet of a moving vehicle or blowing past a neibor's roof or window.

Caliber 90 FT os91 c-spec
Caliber 50, OS50 hyper
Caliber 30 OS37

12-28-2007 10:33 PM

dpcarey
Senior Heliman
Location: Ontario, Canada

MarkC. You still aren`t reading and I do not have the time or the inclination to teach you.

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Do you really picture a senate special committee hearing where they are all watch JK fly on a projection screen TV in the front of a stadium sized courtroom?

Where on earth did you read that MarkC? - A "special Senate committee"? You are hurting your own credibilty with an exaggeration like that.

The fact of the matter is very simple here, and it ain`t "paranoia" as you like to say. If and when some 14 year old pilot hits a toddler while flying his 450/500 outside his home, you can be sure as heck there will legal action - especially in the U.S.A. When the issue of relative dangers and risks are discussed in an attempt to determine possible negligence and liability (for the real big money), the lawyer for the pilot can now parade that video out for all to see prior to, or in, court. The defendants` lawyer will say something to the effect; see folks, my client wasn`t being negligent, he is simply a kid following the example being set (publicly) by a world class pilot (JK) and the Worlds` largest heli manufacturer (Align).

Since the pilot in my example is under age, it is quite possible that Align could be paying out some dough - possibly JK too.

Such legal precedents are already well-entrenched in Common Law. They can also ultimately lead to external regulation as the players run for cover in an attempt to avoid the Pandoras` Box of future "payouts"...insurance companies, community parks/schools, AMA...

Now, if you think that is far-fetched or paranoid, either do some reading, or talk to a lawyer. You will find your answer. The fact is, with leadership (read Align and JK) comes responsibility.

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Even if such an event did happen one day they would only be watching a video of someone flying a toy helicopter out in front of their house without incident.

That statement means absolutely nothing.

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If you want your rights to fly legislated, controlled and policed then simply continue to stand on your soapbox and continue to draw attention.

You still haven`t read my posts. Go back and try again. Nowhere, absolutely nowhere, have I implied in any way, shape, or form, what you have just accused me of. Like the "Special Senate Committee" comment - you seem to be making it up as you go along. This is the "Safey Forum" on RunRyder, not the New York Times. It is hardly "drawing attention". It is the one place we can discuss such issues.

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What you don't seem to get is that I understood your point pages ago. I understood CJames's point pages ago. I don't think there is anyone here who's point I didn't understand. Many folks here understand my point. I'm sure even CJames got his head around it and bowed out

"Bowed out". Interesting comment, vain and arrogant too. Are these your real motives - causing someone to "bow out" of a public forum - to end the dialogue of free speech? I am surprised you wrote that for others to see. It appears to me, you must have your way no matter what the cost - exaggerations and misquotes included. Perhaps CJames recognized that and has simply decided not to engage you further - precisely what I am going to do.

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It is a HELL of a lot healthier to the hobby than dragging it out in public on this forum. This thread offers nothing and I mean NOTHING positive for this hobby. So I will do you this favor - I will unsubscribe from this topic and not post anymore. But please do me and YOURSELF a favor: Post one more time if you can't control the urge but then please shut the hell up about it. Get off the soap box and stop drawing attention to it.

MarkC. Good try

on the righteous approach as you exit the room. Do "yourself a favour", scroll to the top of this page and read the title of this forum. Then ask yourself this: If members cannot talk about this here, then where the heck can we talk about it?

Who is trying to "regulate" who here?

Enuf said.

12-28-2007 10:44 PM

CJames
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in KC

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Perhaps CJames recognized that and has simply decided not to engage you further - precisely what I am going to do.

YEP. Figured life is just too short to spend arguing with someone who has no real concept of reason or accountability

Its funny when people complained in the originial video post in the t-rex forum about his video, they were told to come here and voice their concerns by jk's supporters.

Anyone want a pet rabbit?.............I found him on the road dead and I'm tired of hugging him

12-28-2007 11:15 PM

wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

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Over 200,000 Trex 450 were sold the last couple of years....

To somewhat off-topic, I wonder how many of them still exist?!

£150 x 200,000 = 30 million pounds worth of helis. I bet that comes to 100 million when you include spares & upgrades.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive

12-28-2007 11:36 PM

Mark C
Key Veteran
Location: Houston, TX - USA

Ok. Being that I’m bored I’m up for another round on this one.

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MarkC. You still aren`t reading and I do not have the time or the inclination to teach you.

Nor do you have the ability. Your continual arrogant condescending tone of “you’re the student” and “I’m the teacher” makes you nothing less than delusional. You continual insistence on my inability to read only detracts from your already diminishing credibility.

If you want to continue a good debate simply stick to the topic without the condescending tone or insults.

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The fact of the matter is very simple here, and it ain`t "paranoia" as you like to say. If and when some 14 year old pilot hits a toddler while flying his 450/500 outside his home, you can be sure as heck there will legal action - especially in the U.S.A. When the issue of relative dangers and risks are discussed in an attempt to determine possible negligence and liability (for the real big money), the lawyer for the pilot can now parade that video out for all to see prior to, or in, court. The defendants` lawyer will say something to the effect; see folks, my client wasn`t being negligent, he is simply a kid following the example being set (publicly) by a world class pilot (JK) and the Worlds` largest heli manufacturer (Align). Since the pilot in my example is under age, it is quite possible that Align could be paying out some dough - possibly JK too.

This is your best argument on this matter to date. Nevertheless, the flaw in your logic is that the homeowner’s insurance policy of the parents of the minor will be the first mana to be tapped by the attacking lawyers. Since GWB clawed his way to office riding on a heavy campaign of tort reforms, 3rd party liability lawsuits have all but gone out the window especially after he signed the bill protecting gun manufacturers from lawsuits by crime victims.

Lawyers would just dead end the suit at the homeowner’s policy. JK wouldn’t get touched – can’t get blood from a turnip so why waste the legal muscle. Suing an overseas company that could muster a formidable legal battle such as Align and then getting them to pay represents a special pain in the a$$ to legal firms so the best they could go for is the onshore distributors which don’t have pockets nearly as deep and quite likely don’t carry product liability policies so again, no need to waste legal muscle.

The bottom line is this: If you cut down one of your trees with a Stihl chainsaw and it accidentally crushed your neighbor’s kid then your homeowner’s insurance would pay and if there was a lawsuit to follow then Stihl or whoever sold you the chainsaw would not be named it the suit. And even if there were a commercial showing Tiger Woods cutting down trees with a Stihl chainsaw in his front yard it is highly unlikely that he would be named in the suit.

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Such legal precedents are already well-entrenched in Common Law. They can also ultimately lead to external regulation as the players run for cover in an attempt to avoid the Pandoras` Box of future "payouts"...insurance companies, community parks/schools, AMA...

This is nonsensical and this is not the fall of dominoes that is going to get your flying rights curtailed. Suing Align or Jason Krause is in no way going to initiate legislation against RC heli flying.

Here is how the dominoes fall:

1. As RC Helicopters become more and more popular, more and more people attempt to fly them in their own yards.
2. More people attempting to fly them in their front yards results in more damages/injury innocent persons/property.
3. More damages/injury to innocent persons/property results in more claims against homeowner’s insurance policies.
4. As insurance companies gather statistics they realize that at some point it would be more cost effective to spend the money feeding lobbyists to pressure state senators and state representatives and driving media campaigns targeted toward creating local laws regulating the use of RC Helis. (It is a HELL of a lot easier to get this done at the state level first, followed by a few other states and then some other states just snowball in.)
5. With laws governing the use of RC Helis on your property in place, the homeowner’s insurance policies would no longer be required to pay claims involving RC Helicopters since their use on your private property would be constituted as “illegal activity”.

What I described above is the fall of dominoes that caused most of the regulations governing air rifles, fireworks, fences around your backyard pools, running with scissors and damn near any other thing that once used to be considered lawful to do on your own property to now be regulated and controlled. And I can’t currently think of any of these regulations that were sparked by a video of someone performing the associated act safely without incident. So in the end, the video with Jason Krause flying in his front yard would not have had any bearing on the creation of such legislation.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts that there have already been several claims to homeowner’s policies involving RC Helicopters. It is just that at this point it is likely that the number is still below the threshold so they are considered isolated incidents and not worthy of spending the money on the machinery involved in bringing about legislation – its just easier to raise the premiums instead. Hopefully it will just stay that way.

If you have interpreted my ranting as an effort to squash anyone’s free speech then let me clarify it here: If you want to affect a change the do so at the source. Clearly word up a message to JK and ask him to consider removing the video. As I stated before, if he were to get enough intelligent, lucid, properly worded messages explaining your concerns and reasons that he should consider removing it then he may do exactly that even though his perception of potential danger is not the same as yours.

Give it a try. In the end if you succeed in persuading him to remove the video and it keeps the number of incidents below the threshold point which awakens the bureaucratic machinery resulting in regulation then you have done a hell of a lot better than sitting around here bashing it like a bunch of old ladies.

Personally, I don’t think that removing that video would amount to a hill of beans. But you just never know….

Best of luck to ya,
Mark C.

12-29-2007 03:19 AM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

Mark C
Did you run a spell check ?

Good points though, Thanks for your insight

12-29-2007 03:52 AM

rchelichop
Senior Heliman
Location: Valencia

Eating a can of beans is like flying helicopter cause a bean could fly off the fork at 200mph and kill them, lol. Lame-o comparisons AGAIN, please stop my sides are hurting from laughing so much at the ridiculosness.

I'm all for regulation of stupid people. I think regulating people to not fly RC helis except only at sanctioned fields is not over regulation, but actually needed to protect us from idiot heli pilots who think these things pose no dangers if flown in a neighborhood like that. If I saw this happening in a neighborhood, and even as a fellow heli flyer, you can bet I'll be calling the police for recklessness. I love fast cars, but if I see someone doing 80mph in a 35 mph zone, you'd bet I'd be calling the cops for recklessness just the same. Just because you share a common interest doesn't automatically make you buds and you can do whatever you want wherever you want.

12-29-2007 04:01 AM

ZXXflyer
Key Veteran
Location: stone mountain, georgia, US

Why is everyone still talking about kids, toddlers, and other bodily harm?
There were no other people, residents, neighbors, or ailens present in the video in question...
Does ANYONE really think JK would have flown if there were anyone outside, or that he would not land if someone walked out their front door?
Everyone keeps talking about "others" flying their electric helis in neighborhoods...and what does this have to do with the topic of the post(JK flying outside in a neighborhood).
What stupid/unsafe things others do on their time/property is their business and responsibility.
Are we trying to come to the conclusion that everyone needs to be policed or that JK is the devil?

If it becomes illegal to be dumb, then we're gunna need to aquire some more US soil and build a couple hundred thousand jails.

if you really call the cops that much, then you should think about just becoming one. I'll bet you wouldn't bother to follow a drunk driver somewhere and make a citizens arrest to save the world....

I'd hate to be JK right now...he's gunna be opening up hate mail for the next year

Believer in Weston motors!

12-29-2007 04:48 AM

HOMEPAGE

Cromer
Senior Heliman
Location: Germantown, NY

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If you have interpreted my ranting as an effort to squash anyone’s free speech then let me clarify it here: If you want to affect a change the do so at the source. Clearly word up a message to JK and ask him to consider removing the video. As I stated before, if he were to get enough intelligent, lucid, properly worded messages explaining your concerns and reasons that he should consider removing it then he may do exactly that even though his perception of potential danger is not the same as yours.

I did exactly that as soon as I saw this video a number of days ago. I am also going to email Align with my concerns.

Too many hobbies - not enough money

12-29-2007 04:50 AM

Blade_Master1
Key Veteran
Location: Canada

Couldn't help but notice, It's the Plankers that are complaining

12-29-2007 04:55 AM

cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

I nominate this the most idiotic thread of the year!

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.

12-29-2007 05:00 AM

Funky Trex
Key Veteran
Location: Westerville, OH - USA

Hahhaha

Agreed!!

12-29-2007 05:01 AM

ZXXflyer
Key Veteran
Location: stone mountain, georgia, US

Mark C said it well....

Believer in Weston motors!

12-29-2007 05:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

CJames
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in KC

Not sure if you meant me but I am not a planker.

I am a heli guy that has been cussed at, told to find somewhere else to fly, threatened by plankers at public AMA flying fields just like some of you.

Tried em, but I like my helis.

And yes, theres a ton of planes in my gallery, but those were bought for re-sale only, {R/C side business, I buy it anything R/C for re-sale} the 3 helis in the pics are my fliers.

Anyone want a pet rabbit?.............I found him on the road dead and I'm tired of hugging him

12-29-2007 05:23 AM

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Century Helicopter	.	MTA Hobbies	.	Model Rectifier Corp
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > I nominate this as dangerous vid of the year.

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