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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 450 Mix Mini-Titan Tail Pulley with TRex = approximately 5.5:1 ratio
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

The older TRex450 (XL and older HDE) are using the "Autorotation tail drive gear" and the "Tail Drive Gear" that will give your TRex's tail rotor of spinning close to 5x to the main rotor. (<5:1)

In SE/SE2 and all the "Autorotation tail drive gear" and the "Tail Drive Gear" u can get right now are all configure in such a way the tail spin at 4.2:1 of the main rotor.
{ Autorotation Tail drive gear }

{ Tail Drive Gear }


In 3D configuration, this is O.K. and it might be good as well because in 3D flying style, the user normally configure the main rotor to spin at 3k rpm. With that high RPM, the tail blade grips will not fly off.

In leisure flying or in multibladed heli, it is better to spin main rotor at much lower RPM instead. If using the SE/SE2 type of tail configuration (4.2:1), the tail authority will suffers.

Sadly, it looks like Align no longer producing the older type of tail gear ratio.

To solve this problem, there maybe a solution for it.

By combining the SE/SE2 "Tail Drive Gear" with Mini-Titan's "Tail Drive Gear Set"
Use either this:
{ Tail Drive Gear set }

OR
{ Tail Rotor Shaft }


Procedure:
The trick is to get Mini-Titan's "PV0733 - Tail Drive Gear Set" or "PV0737 - Tail Rotor Shaft".
I use "PV0737" instead. Knock off the pulley gear out. It can be easily knock off.
Then get Align's "HS1216-84 - Metal Tail Drive Gear Assembly" and apply some glue on it.
U cannot use Loctite because the tail pulley is made of plastic. I use epoxy for metal type.
Then carefully slot in the Mini-Titan Tail Pulley into the Align Tail Drive Gear.
Careful not to let the epoxy overspill onto the bearing.
Let it dry for 24hours. It depend on your epoxy. Some have complete dry within 5 hours.
After that, u have a new tail pulley.

I already done that and already install in my TRex 450 Test helicopter. I have yet complete assemble the electronics but by measuring the number of turns, I manage to get around 5.5:1 ratio! (that is tail spin about 5.5x than the main rotor).

I will test flight it and report back on the outcome. The epoxy look and feel strong enough and I hope it will hold.

SH
12-21-2007 02:11 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

I have 2 new tail and main gear setups (the white gear sets) from my first XL heli I think I will save them forever.... I never needed them but I probably will now that I have 2 scale bird going this winter...

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-21-2007 02:22 AM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Our older white autorotation main gear can last us quite a while...it is our tail pulley that is hard to come by. Already send a post in Align forum asking why they stop producing it but no response. Fed up of it, I resort to other solution.

SH
12-21-2007 02:27 AM
 
 
phattalon
Senior Heliman
Location: Muncie In

You can still get 109t tail drive gear from 3dx or helidirect. They still come on the 3dx450 or the hdx450. It is a direct drop in replacement, there is no need to use MT parts.

Jason Russell
12-21-2007 04:48 AM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Hi Jason

Thanks for informing that we still can get it somewhere. The reason I did this is because it is convenient for me to get those parts for me to modify in local hobby shop.

Anyway, today I manage to test flight it outdoor and with some windy condition.

Result is good. It hold well and no failure on the epoxy glue.

SH
12-23-2007 04:12 AM
 
 
R38133
Veteran
Location: USA

Microheli produces both gear ratios and are far better quality than the stock align originals. Check heliproz they have both..
12-23-2007 04:27 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

I was just checking on a replacement main gear as I had a pinion move on the shaft while flying and it stripped the main gear... So I need to buy one... Both still run the 150T main drive gear....

White set
450 XL 109T auto gear HP2012-1
450 XL 16T Tail drive gear HS1013-1
the gear ratio is 6.81:1

Dark blue
450 SE 106T auto gear HS1218-84
450 SE 25T Tail drive gear HS1216-84
The gear ratio is 4.24:1
There is a huge difference in tail speed if your looking for a fast tail and slower headspeed for scale....
Those good old XL parts are going to pay off now guys...

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-26-2007 11:29 PM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Eh... I don't think the older gear of "450 XL 16T Tail drive gear HS1013-1" is 16T. The 16Teeths is referring to the pulley teeth. Not the pinion.

I have the older white one and I just count it. It is 22Teeth.

That mean the older one will have 109/22 = 4.95:1

SH
12-26-2007 11:38 PM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

SH All of the belt drive pulleys are 11T This is where I got the information from... http://www.helidirect.com/product_i...products_id=139

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-27-2007 01:23 AM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

It could be possible that the one u referring to is for the TRex 450 v1 instead. The reason I said so is because:
1. I count my white one is 22Teeth. Blue is 25Teeth
2. If the white is 16Teeth, then the "450 XL 109T auto gear HP2012-1" cannot be 109 teeth because it cannot mesh the pinion correctly. The auto gear have to be bigger instead.
3. It could be possible they label wrongly.
4. It could be it is from TRex 450 v1 instead. I haven't seen v1 before but I heard it has tail spinning close to 7x. If that is the case, you need the v1 auto gear instead. The HP2012-1 is for XL.

SH
12-27-2007 02:28 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

The info I posted is from heli direct and readyheli. I checked both places for info... Maybe you have the first model the X version, it had tail holding problems so that might explain it.. Also the SA I have has the white gear setup in it.... The tail does spin faster than the se's I have....

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-27-2007 02:34 AM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Since in holiday season... I decided to create the similar design BUT this time using the older XL pulley (White) with the older white auto gear.

Just complete install it in my Align MD-500E but yet to try. By quick measurement, it has around 6.2:1 ratio!!

SH
12-27-2007 04:06 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

That should help alot with the lower headspeed your running for scale. Do you have any idea what your headspeed is?? What pitch range are you running?? -3 to +10? Have you changed your cyclic throws to slow the heli movements down? I have the mechanics flying good with the tail swaped to the left side and now I want to reverse the main rotor rotation too for my new Hughes 500E that is soon to be painted..

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-27-2007 09:16 PM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Yes my main aim is to have the main rotor to spin as low as possible because:
1. More scale
2. Multibladed do fly better in low RPM.

I do not have any equipment to measure the speed. Once I manage to borrow/ask someone else to measure it, I will let u know.

I not sure about the pitch also because in flybarless, u can't use the normal pitch gauge because there is no flybar to reference to. Using crude naked eyes to measure... the pitch is around -3 to +12 I think.

My cyclic movement still remain the same as previous.

SH
12-28-2007 12:59 AM
 
 
slider46
rrProfessor
Location: Gloversville, NY

LIke I said I fly my old 500E with the white gears and they work fine.. I have even swaped my new 500E mechanics over to the XL gears because I like how the tail holds with the lower headspeeds. Let me know how it works out with the multi blade head as I'm going to put one on my 500E as soon as I get it done....

Tom..... No "D" flying....
12-28-2007 03:07 AM
 
 
Super-Hornet
Veteran
Location: Singapore

In multibladed, the torque generated by the multiblades is going to be high so definitely need a good tail authority. I tried on my original white one with 5 blades of Align Pro 335mm and the tail kind of weak. That is why I go for 4 bladed tail. With this 6:1 ratio, I expect to have even better tail authority especially in low RPM.

SH
12-28-2007 03:55 AM
 
 
OU812
Heliman
Location: Louisville, KY - United States

Super-Hornet,
I've read this post and I'm not sure I understand - toatlly? Are you using the tail pulley (from mini-titan) in place of the pinion gear that meshes with the autorotation gear or are you replacing the tail drive pulley from the TREX with a Mini-Titan pulley? I can't seem to find anyplace that still has the 109T tail drive auto gear. I was able to find the 16T Tail Drive gear at Helidirect for the TREX XL, but I don't think it will mesh with the existing 106T gear that I have?

I'm still trying to get my 4 Bladed head flying on mine? I've reversed my main rotor and flipped the tail - so I'm flying CCW with the fly bar still on and wanted to get my tail dialed in before I put the 4 Bladed Head on. I've changed motors to a 3800 Kv motor and a 9t pinion - estimating the head speed using readyheli's calculator at 2278 RPM's. Much more scale like and easier to fly - I wish I would have done this when I first started flying!!! I guess before I buy some extra parts I'm going to try and fly it - but if the tail suffers or can't hold I'm going to change things up!

Unless you just want to sell your 5 Bladed 500E Model and I won't have to worry about all this stuff!!!
02-01-2008 10:32 PM
 
 
seattle_helo
Key Veteran
Location: Washington State, USA

SH, I'm way late to the party here but just wanted to say thanks for the good info. I'm installing my old 109T lower gear now and I'm hoping it will help things for me. I did find something interesting online: a 115T autorotation tail drive gear that is a component of part number HS1039-1. Here's a link to it, forth item down from the top:

http://www.highvoltage-rc.com/conte...-us/d33_01.html

I can't seem to verify it though on the Align site. Something makes me think it's a typo...

nick
05-13-2008 04:01 AM
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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 450 Mix Mini-Titan Tail Pulley with TRex = approximately 5.5:1 ratio
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