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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Guide to setting pitch range and tracking on the Honey Bee King
 
 
shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

The first step is setting pitch range. I'll assume you have a pitch
gauge and know how to use it. The swashplate should also be level at
this point.

Something to check: Lay a ruler or straightedge against the top of each blade to check for "bowing" - very common in stock wood blades. Bowing can lead to decreased lift and increased difficulty tracking the blades. For best results, use the straightest blades possible.

-Disconnect motor from ESC
-TX on; connect heli battery
-Set both pitch knobs to center; switch to idle up
-Move the throttle to center, measure pitch of each blade; should be

--Shorten the long pitch links to reduce pitch; lengthen to increase
until both blades are right at 0º
-Throttle to low, measure pitch; throttle to high, measure pitch
--Should be even throw - around -8½ - -9º to +8½ - +9º
--If the range is too high (e.g. -7º - +11º) the swashplate needs to
be lowered; too low (e.g. -12º - +6º) the swash needs to be raised
--Shorten or lengthen the servo-to-swash links EVENLY (same number of turns on each link) and repeat the
whole process starting from 0º at center stick (yes, this can get REAL
tedious, but a good setup from the start pays huge dividends in the
way the heli flies)

Now's a good time to set your flybar paddles. Put throttle to center, idle up, blades at 0º, and loosening grub screws as necessary, get the flybar control arms aligned so that if they were one piece, they'd make a level square around the hub. Twist the paddles so that they are level with the flybar, flybar control arms, and blades at 0º.

(Another thing - after setting range and pitch, with motor still unplugged, swash level - move the throttle stick slooowwwlly all the way up and down several times. Check that the swash stays perfectly level all through the range. Variations in swash levelness could indicate binding or bad servos. This is how I tracked down a mysterious drifting problem I had with the King. One servo wasn't moving at exactly the same rate as the others, and the swash was tilting at certain points in the range.)

You may end up going through 2 or more packs getting it all zeroed in.

You should end up with about -9º - +9º with 0º at center stick in idle
up. Now we can get to tracking.

-Designate one blade as "master". I use the one with the tracking
marks - easy to remember. Mark the blade grip too in case you need to
remove and reinstall the blades later
-Get the master as close to absolute 0º as you can in center-stick,
idle up using the long pitch links. You should be done with swash
raising/lowering.
-Unplug heli; switch idle up back to normal; turn off tx
-Reconnect motor
-Make sure the tx is in normal mode, throttle low, knobs centered
-Turn on tx; plug in heli
-Secure the heli or hold it in your hand if you like to live
dangerously (not recommended, but whattya gonna do?)
-Spin it up to about 60% - about where it wants to lift off
-Adjust the other blade to the master until they rotate on the same
plane
-You're finally done

Using the "master blade" approach ensures you don't screw up the
pitch range after a few tracking adjustments. When tracking starts to
go out, the procedure is:
-Adjust master blade to 0º at center stick, idle up, motor
disconnected

-Track the other blade to the master at 60% throttle in normal mode

It's a "royal" pain, but worth it when you see the heli just hanging
there, majestically awaiting your command to crash.

Then you can do it all over again.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
12-11-2007 05:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

What about when your turnin the heck out of your heli with a 10t and 3800rpm motor. And tracking doesn't stay constant throughout a flight and a half turn adjustment is too much and blades are usually warped from the beginning anyway and heating will help but not enough.

Im just waitin to get a metal head and CF blades.

But that is good info for rookie setup nice job shizack

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-11-2007 06:07 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

Quote 
What about when your turnin the heck out of your heli with a 10t and 3800rpm motor. And tracking doesn't stay constant throughout a flight and a half turn adjustment is too much and blades are usually warped from the beginning anyway and heating will help but not enough.

Just get a Trex, you know you want one anyway, and itZ the RoXXoRz!! (You were asking for that one...)

Nah - try the Xtreme turnbuckles for minute adjustments (high on my purchase list) and the CF blades should help a lot too. Just gotta shoot for the happy medium, hence the "60% throttle" thing.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
12-11-2007 06:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Nice write-up! I will say after reading this I was thinking "sure maybe that'd work for a Trex but not for HBK2". Sorry couldn't help myself.

This is the way I set mine up. However the HBK2 is tail heavy and with the swash perfectly flat, the heli wanted to drift back and to the left. I added a little more length to the rear servo link and that helped it get closer to the hands off hover. The swash is not perfectly flat but its been adjusted to compensate for the HBK2 balance shortcomings.

Now about Tryan's comment, that's turning out to be a huge problem for me. With a 10t pinion, my blade tracking varies from the start of the battery to the end. I have 3 sets of wood blades. The weight and CG is radically different on all of them. My best balanced set includes one warped one, so its tracking is off even when its spot on (think about it).

I'm not eager to go to the CF blades. I like the look of the white blades and quite frankly my skill level doesn't warrant the upgrade. But if that's what it takes to get blade tracking that is consistant throughout a single battery, I'll do it. Before I abandon the woodies, I'm going to try going back down to 9t and see if between my remaining 5 good blades I can find two that are close in wieght and CG.
12-11-2007 07:46 PM
 
 
shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

I'm kinda stuck on the white blades myself. When/if I ever go CF blades, I may try the Heli-Max 275mm Carbons. They do need spacers, but I believe they come with them, plus they're white. I've read good reviews about those on the King.

My King also ends up drifting a bit back and left, and no swashplate I've ever leveled stays level for long. I always end up tweaking it for level hovers. That's gonna vary heli-to-heli, though. I believe the backwards drift may be caused by the horizontal stab getting pushed down in the rotor wash. Easily tweaked.

Concerning the write-up itself, I figured that would help the noobs and vets who have trouble zeroing in on range and tracking to get it workably close. My tracking stays pretty close through the battery, but I'm using T-word dampers and spindles. The King's softer dampers and variable-tightness spindle may have something to do with inconsistent tracking.

It'll never be perfect, but the King flies so well with its flaws that I wouldn't know what to do with myself if it was perfect.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
12-11-2007 09:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Oh I didn't know the helicopter that can't be named had a spindle shaft that would fit the HBK2. Do you have the CNC head or the plastic head?
12-11-2007 09:32 PM
 
 
shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

Plastic head. It's been abused like a Hebrew building a pyramid, including an idle-up, inverted, positive-pitch head-downer on asphalt. Nothing has broken on the head. Bent the holy hell out of the flybar ("...in thy mercy..." ), but the plastic is hangin' in there.

I had a bent spindle soon after getting the King, and I had a pack of spindles made by a vacuum-cleaner company left over from when I had an MX400. I figured. "if you don't try, you don't fly". Using one 1mm spacer (included in the pack) on each end, whattya know! They fit! Been using them thru 3 crashes, and haven't bent one yet. Plus, they use hex-screws instead of those dang nuts. If you try 'em, use loctite. They will work loose. I threw the package away long ago, so I don't remember the number, but they were for the SEV2, hardened steel, 4cm end-to-end without the screws.

Many have said that these "Allosaurus" spindles won't work in the King, but I haven't had an issue yet in 2 months of using them.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
12-11-2007 10:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

60% throttle Only when I'm on the ground. I'm running 80% at midstick I love the response of the heli here. Problem is hdx300 3800rpm 10t at that speed it is almost impossible to keep tracking on the stock head. I will go as far as saying that my power combo is the extreme the plastic and wood can handle. Greggor99 I believe you are slowly finding this out . I am not letting it bother me I just keep flyin I see as much as a 1/2 inch off at times. I do track the heli at high headspeed 80% by going into idleup and 0 pitch with a chunk of iron holding it down lay on the ground and look at it and adjust..

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-11-2007 10:22 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

Ack! Ya, I think my motor and pinion combo aren't working out very well. Too much headspeed, or so it would seem. I know I still have other issues to solve but reducing the headspeed will definitly be one of the tests. So it would seem for plastic head and the wood blades, the calculated max headspeed is around 2000 (+-200). Up to 3000 for the CF blades with the metal head. Shizack, do you concur on these numbers?

I hate all this calucated guessing on head speed. I've got a tach on the Christmas list, so perhaps I can start basing my setting changes (and posts) on facts instead of calculations alone.
12-11-2007 11:29 PM
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

here is what I got for calculations but from what others have checked with tachs I think you need to figure only 75% of calculated. BTW where are you looking at the tachs I see the airplane ones from 12" is there a better heli one?

Feel free to pass this on to your friends. It is a free-ware. Just remember to visit www.helitown.com for free RC helicopter information.
Version 1.1

HeadSpeed Calculator
Enter The Number of the Teeth of Your Heli Main Gear: 140
Enter the Pinoin Teeth: 10
Enter Your Motor KV: 3800
Enter Your Battery Voltage: 11.1
Enter the Efficiency Rate (. 8 for 80% or .9 for 90%): 0.98
Estimate Head Speed is: 2953

Click here for explanation of each element of the formular on www.helitown.com

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-11-2007 11:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DougsRC
Elite Veteran
Location: MA

Gregor, I myself don't calculate headspeed, if it works I do it, headspeed and idle up can be your friend, it will give you more control and increased stability. (up to a point of course)
12-11-2007 11:41 PM
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

I am done with conventional tracking at hover. Tracking is best when set in idleup you can go to 0 pitch and 80% or more throttle. I just set mine that way I dialed it in good at the above 80% and 0 pitch then gave full negative 90% and 9Degrees it was off a 1/8". not bad for that kind of a load on the blades that could just be warped woodies. Cant wait to see how long it holds.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-11-2007 11:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Gregor99
Elite Veteran
Location: Western Wa

I'm using the rediheli calculator.

http://www.readyheli.com/Online_Hea...ulator_s/81.htm

The Esky 3800 says its 80% effecient, so the resulting headspeed is comes out to be 2410 for a 10t. However this says nothing about the motors ability to sustain the headspeed as the load increases. For that we need to measure.

There aren't any cheap heli tachs. There are inexpensive plane ones that require creative use. The one on my list was the cheap one at HD. Don't remember the name.

So Doug makes a good point, at least to a point. If we as group can collectively agree that high headspeeds and warped wood blades don't mix, then it can save noobs like me from even trying it. Lest you not forget the 10 tooth mania from last month. All that said, my tracking issues may be made worse by the warping and the other mysterious vibrations I'm still trying to track down. So the flip side is that if everyone came out and said, "woodies and 10t, no problem". Then I would know to start elsewere to address my tracking issues. Interestingly Tryan has now droppped his throttle to cope with the headspeed. That made me re-think running the 10t pinion with wood.
12-12-2007 12:14 AM
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

Don't give up on tracking it can be done with the 10t. I think my biggest problem was I was tracking at hover which is to low a speed. Just past 70% is where it was going out especially at normal throttle when the battery was low I think the extra pitch to hold it up was warping the blades. Now I'm flying strictly idleup and tracking set at 80% throttle It is looking a lot better. Time will tell I just hovered a whole pack down to the bottom of the pack and it held fine. I would suggest you do your setup in idleup. I used to fly strictly normal mode cause I wasn't gonna do any stunts. I was told by RR elders that a flat pitch is what I wanted so I went for it and don't regret it a bit. I am done flying normal mode.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-12-2007 12:36 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
shizack
Key Veteran
Location: Augusta, GA USA

Quote 
Gregor99: The Esky 3800 says its 80% effecient, so the resulting headspeed is comes out to be 2410 for a 10t. However this says nothing about the motors ability to sustain the headspeed as the load increases

For that you need the motor's watt rating. That can be harder to find than a "Council" member in broad daylight.

The quick and nasty way to estimate maximum wattage is by multiplying max amps x voltage x efficiency (again).
The max amps for the 3800 is about 17A
3S voltage is about 12V
3800 efficiency is 80%

If you have a battery that can safely output 17 amps, your maximum wattage would be around:
17 x 12 x .8 = 163.2 watts on fresh batteries. Lots of other factors figure into the deal, but this'll get you reasonably close. A bird the size and weight of the King likes about 150 - 250 watts, so you're OK until you decide to start "flipping the bird".

Again, these are rough estimates, but they're at least in the ballpark.

I'm running @ 2400 - 2500 rpm (based on the calculator) on plastic parts and woodies and I haven't had any issues. It seems I read somewhere that plastic and wood are safe to around 2700 - 2900 rpm on the King, but I ain't pushing it.

The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain.
12-12-2007 08:09 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

If you notice my calculator shows mine at just over 2900. at 0 pitch its probably close but you can go to idle up and give full negative and listen to the slow down. Damn I wish I had a tach.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-12-2007 11:41 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

thanks for a good beginner setup shizack cudos.

Canton MO backyard flying club
Club President
Team No funds left.
12-13-2007 02:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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e-E-Sky Honey Bee- Lama- Belt CP- E-Smart > Guide to setting pitch range and tracking on the Honey Bee King
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