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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Oh Noooo Mr.biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilll

JestRR
Senior Heliman
Location: Florence, Oregon

I've been working on just the throttle set of of my benzin. Now i know i dont have the same servos to get the same speed but i gots a question...Trying to get the total throw of the throttle to be at the same persentage of ATV is not comming out right. I found the 50% mark for my wt 603 and started from there like you said in the page on Ricks site which i downloaded and printed out to have in front of me. then i got the same length servo arm as the throttle arm. which I think i might need a smaller arm, I dont know. OK I had to have 63% high and 100% low to get the total throw out of the throttle or else my servo would bind. Do i need a shorter servo arm to get the 10% lower than the Three servos for 3 servo CCPM? I'm having some difficulties with this set up and i want to get it right. These are just practice servos but it should be some what close. is there some way to adjust where the servo stops at high and low with out useing the ATV's this is an 8UHP and soon to have 9202's and an FM rx.

another thing while i'm here, how important is the ignition surpressor cap? I'm planning on getting one but I have to wait for it and i'd like to get hovering???

so many questions so little time

Mike

Mike Spinner
Florence OR
NORTHWEST AERIALS/ SCALEWORKS

03-04-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Mike,
Where is your throttle arm located? On top , or below the carb?
Bill

03-04-2003 Over year old.

JestRR
Senior Heliman
Location: Florence, Oregon

on the bottom

then i had to cut some of the lower plate to get it to rotoate freely with out hitting anything. the barrel arm is longer than the old carb so it stuck down further. I have the throttle servo in the position for the CCPM side frames, on hte back. It lined up fairly close, maybe a 4 or 5 degree up pitch to hte throttle servo arm. Its just the total throw would hit each end. I've read your post on ricks so many times now and i dont know what i'm missing.... the length of the trottle arm is about 11mm so i made the throttle servo that long too. Am i right in doing that?

mike

Mike Spinner
Florence OR
NORTHWEST AERIALS/ SCALEWORKS

03-04-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Yes, your right on the throttle arm...Your problem is you don't have the 50% point set correct on the butterfly...
According to the figures you gave, you should set your atv's to 82/82, and get your 50% point corrected...Your over the 50 % point right now with the 63 high atv...
Keep at it, you'll get it...If you need to go in one hole on the servo arm, thats ok..I have found that if novice keep the arms the same lenght, its easiar to find the 50% point...Once this point is found, if you want to get more resoluton, all you have to do is go in one hole on the servo arm, and raise the atvs to where you need them since the 50% has been calibrated correctly...
You'll know you have found it, when the atv's are the same with no binding...If your on the lowend, and need to adjust a few % to make them even, then adjust the screw to give you some more room....
The problem finding all this is that there is only one known, and thats wide open...When adjusting the setscrew placing the plate halfway on the bevel is pretty close...The reason I say this, this way is, there is a lot of movement on the lowend of the carb that should not be included on the workable atv's movement...
Regards,
Bill Meador

03-04-2003 Over year old.

JestRR
Senior Heliman
Location: Florence, Oregon

I'll try it again. I used a micrometer to measure the total distance to get 50 %. is there a trick to finding the middle mark? I cant see the throttle arm on the botom so i have to use the other arm on top. thought i had it???!@?!???$!@$?!#@4

Mike

Mike Spinner
Florence OR
NORTHWEST AERIALS/ SCALEWORKS

03-04-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Rick, If you don't mind, I'll answer for Bill, 'cause I know he'll have the same answer.I'm so sick of that "why not just use a GV-1" crap. Believe it or not, there are some people that fly helicopters, that are truly interested in learning how to do it right. These people are any thing but lazy. And by the way, you are using your GV-1 incorrectly, if you are not setting the throttle curve up first, then adding the GV-1. When your GV-1 ****s the bed, you will only have your laziness to fall back on. Hope this was gently enough!

03-04-2003 Over year old.

CaliRaptor
Senior Heliman
Location: Menifee, CA

Mike:

To find the center of travel on the carburetor, connect your linkage to the throttle arm. Rest the pushrod against the mainframe or baseplate and make a mark on the pushrod and frame.

Pull/push the pushrod to to full throttle without swinging the pushrod and mark the frame with the mark on the pushrod. Measure the distance between the marks on the frame, divide in two, and make a mark there. Move the pushrod to line up the centermark to the mark on the pushrod. That's the center of travel of the carb.

Make an alignment mark on the carb and the crescent shaped disc on the top of the carb for center reference. Now set up your throttle....

Mark

03-05-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

JestRR
Senior Heliman
Location: Florence, Oregon

Mark

Once again you have save my arss!! I have ot weight to get my 9202's till the middle of the month cause i dont want to push my luck with the wife. Y9ou know with her giving me the money for hte gasser and letting be build my shop all in hte same time frame. GOD IS SMILING ON ME!!!!

I'll try that method and see how far I was off.

Now just to clarify myself, I set the low end (idle) by screwing in the idle stop screw with the big point on it till the cresant shaped arm on top touches it right in the middle of the point. as in the flat angle, from the widest part to the sharp point. thats where the butterfly supposed to look barely open, right!?!? this is supposed to be idle, and i use the kill switch (BIg red button) to stop the engine??!! right?? am i on the right path??

Mike

Mike Spinner
Florence OR
NORTHWEST AERIALS/ SCALEWORKS

03-05-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Rick, didn't mean to come down so hard on you. I just think it's important to learn how the beast works, so one day we can answer the questions instead of ask 'em.

03-05-2003 Over year old.

Naomi
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

Kill the engine.

Quote
i use the kill switch (BIg red button) to stop the engine??!! right?? am i on the right path??

No Mike, you can just use the trim to closed the throttle all the way.. engine will be stopped. Just like the nitro engines no need to hit the kill switch to kill the engine.

Naomi

03-05-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

Gosh Guys, don't get your feathers brushed up

heheee..
First, let me say that IT is a good thing that we converse on such things, and I'm sure Al was thinking of the fast food crowd on lazy folks, heheee
Anyway, Al is a good guy, and means well...
Now, Al, let me say something about Rick...I got to meet Rick at Ron lunds flyin...All I can say about Rick is, that he is one of the most inspiring fellows, I've ever met....You should see him handle himself with his equipment (Turbine also), and fly like it just wasn't nothing to it..
I was very humbled, and impressed....He is absolutely an asset to this hobby...Rick, I'm sure you will fine Al to be a great resourse also...
With that said
It is a good thing to learn the whole system when it comes to throttle setup, with GOV operation...Gov are a good thing, and do have their place, but I do think its important to learn the mecahnics of the system, then you will have a better working Gov as a side benefit...
I'll talk about it more later..(Phone call)
Regards,
Bill

03-05-2003 Over year old.

Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Sorry again Rick, no disrespect intended. This GV-1 thing comes up all the time. I thought this post was another one of many, where someone asks about throttle set-up, and the answer is : slap a gov on it. Then you see newbies asking if they REALLY have to have a gov. The impression is that you can't fly a helicopter without one.

03-05-2003 Over year old.

Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Amen Rick. My sentiments exactly! Once the Vigor lemmings start jumping over the cliff, it seems like the entire heli community goes next. Just for the record, for anyone not familiar with a governor, they will ONLY maintain the headspeed. They WILL NOT put the carburetor throttle plate in the correct relationship with the load that is being demanded. The carb opening NEEDS to be correct first, then you set the mixture to be correct. Most people, when faced with the half stick 0º of pitch overspeeding, will pull the throttle curve down, thereby closing the carb. I prefer to leave the the curve where it is, and richen the mid-range. With a gasser, the throttle opening/ to load is all important. Taking what we learn from gassers, and applying to glow, it's amazing the tuning problems that can be solved.

03-05-2003 Over year old.

JestRR
Senior Heliman
Location: Florence, Oregon

BMR7A

My G2D has a BMR6A in it. I've been told that the 6 is hotter than the 7. what is the real difference. I'm sure it will run on the 6 but will the hotter running camp fuel, and the hotter plug make a noticable difference??

Mike

Mike Spinner
Florence OR
NORTHWEST AERIALS/ SCALEWORKS

03-07-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

ok, I'm back
Mike, did you get the throttle fixed? Must have since your asking about plugs? The 6A is hotter plug...I've used it on gas, but not camper fuel...the 7A was enough...I was thinking you had the RC230 instead of the G2D...

As I've said before, I'm going to change the ATV settings on the article, so that those running a 3D setup can do a better job...Running the lower atvs will also cause the gov to not operate correctly because the operating band is to compressed...I think I'm going to just write a new article...
I had a good talk last year with Curtis on this subject at MayDay....He told me what to do, and as always, he was right on the money...
I have since desided the 3D throttle setup is the way to go wither it scale or 3D...
Everything in the article still applys, just forget about the the longer arm, and lower atv's
A good 1:1 , or less ratio is fine....I use the less myself where as the servo arm ball is shorter than the distance on the carb arm relative to the axis...This produces higher atv throttle settings than the pitch atv...Exsample would be 100/100 on pitch atv, and 120/120 on throttle

What is the reason for all this?
The glow has a narrow torque band compared to a gasser...If you lead the throttle to much on the gasser, the engine will think it doesn't have load momentarly, and will not load properly, or take the fuel, so to speak
In scale flying, you fly in normal most of the time, and use the full benefit of the throttle curve full scale.
With 3D, your using only half the scale, therefore slow the servo down inorder to get the timing correct...

What are the other benefits by doing this method...
In normal, you will have a reverse french "S type curve..This allows the throttle to be flat around hover more, which produces less throttle movement during a hover...This allows a more accurate lowend needle setting for the user..
Regards,
Bill Meador

03-09-2003 Over year old.

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Oh Noooo Mr.biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilll

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