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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Main Discussion > Old-School Heli: Du-Bro Whirlybird 505 Video
 
 
heli_headcase
Key Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

TonyF: As nuts as I am...

Sorry TonyF, you make an easy target for comment

Quote 
But I now have one just about ready to fly and another NIB kit. So I'm going to see if I can fly it now. Hopefully I'll have some good video!

Sure hope you can get your 505 in flying condition and bring it to IRCHA in 2008. To have more than one flying at once would be fantastic. OK, I'll hand out the 'ear defenders' for those unable to stick their fingers in their ears.

Quote 
My next heli was a Kavan Jet Ranger. I did fly it but it went in in the dreaded turn, which the early Jet Ranger wouldn't get out of. I now have two NIB Kavan's to try again.

Oh my, that's a flight limitation (for that Kavan) I'm not familiar with. I plan on putting some time into my Jet Ranger and would hate to see it spiral down to its end. Thanks for the warning.

Quote 
I then got a DuBro Shark with the O&R engine. I actually flew it before the Kavan and I learned how to fly heli's with it. I still remember that as a fun time.

I'm glad you had fun. Trying to get the Hughes airborne was nothing but a fight with the local air molecules. Felt like a great waste of time.

Quote 
I upgraded to the .60 engine conversion and even flew in the Novice class at the 1976 Nats. At one point I had the collective conversion and flew it some.

The 60 conversion was a great step forward for Du-Bro. I added that conversion to my Hughes 300 in 1989 (Supertigre G-71 engine) and with a Perry backplate pump and matching carb was extremely pleased with its running qualities. You're one more individual claiming to have the collective Du-Bro head. I now have a complete Shark 60 collective setup and until I saw the head in person didn't believe they existed for regular public purchase. I knew Du-Bro factory pilots had them but didn't think these heads made it to a true production status. Where is it now?

Quote 
I had and flew quite a bit a TriStar. It was a real bear on the tail! No gyro of course. This was about 1979. Whenever a local heli pilot would think he was pretty hot, I'd have him fly that TriStar. It was really fun seeing them try to keep that tail in control!

LOL!! I'll bet! That's another Du-Bro heli I've never seen in the air. I'm hesitant to risk mine as I don't have any spare bodies. I need to find a stock Scorpion II fuse to copy, then I'll be 'fearless'

Quote 
My prize kits now are two NIB O&R DuBro Hughes 300's. Everything is still in the plastic bags. They should be a blast to build and fly.

I have one NIB, will stay there for a long time. I wish you luck flying one in stock form. I tackled one of mine a few years ago (need to post video of my first flights, no gyro) and could clearly understand why I had problems in '74. Funny thing is the nature of the difficulty now vs 33 years ago. Besides the horribly underpowered engine, I just couldn't get my head wrapped around that incredibly slow cyclic response. The tail didn't seem to bother me very much then, it was the biggest pain to deal with now. Yeah, need to edit and post its video.

Quote 
I'm all for a Vintage meet! Hope it can be done. Along with the above mentioned kits I've got a TriStar, a Shark .60, two Graupner 212's and a Heim Star Ranger. It sure would be fun to get together with those again!

Let's do it! Get flying what you can and show them off in '08.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Butch
Veteran
Location: New York

Holy Galleries HH, some awesome machinery!

The magazine article about the Hughes was in two parts in two consecutive issues. Sweeping out some cobwebs, I think it was in RCM.

Absolute dead calm was my wind of choice, so I never had to fight it. I do remember catching the training gear on the weeds, flipping it over, and having to bend/eyeball everything back out as best I could.

I still have the F710 (27.095/orange).The servos sport linear output via additional gearing/racks.

I wonder who the person is that designed this early Dubro line, or was it several different individuals?

The Whirlybug Bit Me!
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

I found it. A picture that's been missing from my collection of old flying photos for at least ten years (since I moved to Iowa).



That's a picture of me and my DuBro "Superbird". This was the modification published by Ed Sweeney in the last two issues of American Aircraft Modeler magazine.

A quick search of the web for AAM magazine says it was last published in March 1975. That would make the two articles published in February and March 1975. Considering that there is a wealth of snow in the background (Bozeman, Montana, at the time), I'm guessing that this picture was taken perhaps October or November 1975.

If you compare this picture to that of the original 505, you'll see that the top-mounted K&B 40 is gone, that metal fuel tank is gone, as are the stock rotor blades and head. The new head is made from a turnbuckle and a couple of nylon aircraft nosegear mounts. Hand laminated and carved main rotor blades with a flat-bottom airfoil (paddles, too) replaced the 1/4 inch balsa slabs of the original 505. The tail rotor blades have also been replaced. The flat 1/32 inch ply TR blades have been swapped out for some hand carved TR blades having an airfoil.

The motor is a Supertiger 23 and it has a Kavan muffler mounted on it. Visible on the bottom is the large centrifugal clutch, the drive belt, and the hand made pinion/fan assembly on the motor. The pinion was turned from a piece of aluminum, and looked like a metal sewing thread bobbin. Holes were drilled into the hub so it looked like a cylinder from a "six shooter" pistol. Short bits of something like 3/32 inch or 1/8th music wire were inserted into the holes, making the grooves to drive the toothed timing belt.

The fan "blades" were short pieces of aluminum, filed so they had an airfoil shape, bent to an "L" shape, and then screwed onto the fan hub. You can see several of the fan blades on the hub. The start mechanism was a cone (seen as the bottom of the fan hub) and a standard airplane starter cone was used to turn it over.

This was a fixed-pitch heli, and the flybar weights are seen to be nothing more than a few large diameter steel washers.

As I recall, the radio I used was a Cannon Electronics 4-channel "Econoflite" system, built entirely from a kit. Servos were Cannon's equivalent of the then popular Kraft KPS-10 servo. It was an AM system, and was flown on 75.640 MHz, "green/white" frequency flags and all.

As an aside, Bill Cannon was a pioneer in what today is considered small or micro RC systems, and one of the last US-based RC equipment manufacturers, outlasting Kraft, Orbit, Bonner, Citizen-Ship, EK-Logictrol, ACE R/C, and many others.

Photoshop did a remarkable job of restoring color and detail to this photo. It was originally shot onto a 35 mm negative by one of my then RC mentors, Chuck Curtis, an RF Engineer who spent a lot of time designing and building his own RC gear. I believe he is still an active flyer, flying with the Gallatin Eagles, in Bozeman, Montana.

I took the negative to a local photo processing shop and had it printed as a 3 x 5 print having a textured finish that looks remarkably like silk, weave and all. The original photo is a bit overexposed and faded. I clicked the "one button" photo fix button and after about 30 minutes, this picture was rendered as shown. I remember very vividly that dirty old yellow "flying cap", that light blue jacket, and even that old table at our local flying site which was about 15 acres of empty farm land adjacent to what was then Summit Engineering Company in Bozeman, Montana.

This picture was taken shortly before this highly modified 505's maiden flight as the "Superbird". Shortly after this heli got airborne for the first time, the setscrew in that "Y-shaped" swashplate follower came loose, and the Superbird was no more. That was probably the most memorable 30-second flight I've ever known in a helicopter.

There is a lot of nostalgia in this picture and it certainly stirs up a lot of fond memories, not only of the early RC helicopter days, but of some of the guys who taught me to fly planks, and who encouraged (and scoffed, though in good humor) me in this new extension of RC -- the RC helicopter.

I was all of about 21 years old in this picture, in College working towards my BSEE degree, and enjoying RC as much then, as I do now.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Quote 
I wonder who the person is that designed this early Dubro line,

A fellow by the name of Dave Gray. One of the true RC Heli pioneers.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
alvinrc
Veteran
Location: Mobile, AL, USA

This is all very good reading, sure brings back memories.

Never got any where with the 505. I figured that the pictures in mags of it hovering were fake for sure.
First actual hover with Dubro Shark when O&R engine would decide to run good enough.
First forward flight with Dubro Tri-Star.
Best I remember, it's entire main frame was solid cast/machined aluminum.
12-04-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
bagobitz
Veteran
Location: saddleworth,lancs,UK

HH Thanks for a great video...I was out of aeromodelling at that time, having built Keil Kraft kits....all balsa/tissue/dope.

Flying-scale Avro 707a ?? with a jetex engine gave way to an AM10-powered "phantom-mite" control-liner how your Vid. sound bought back the memories!! There was absoloutely no provision for eqhaust manifolding....just three slits stretching round the cylinder -base An awesome noise for a 12-year old The ED "bee" did have an exhaust-stub like yours, but no tapped holes...the rudimentary silencers had lugs at each end and a U-clamp went round the cylinder..but only wealthy people could afford single-channel in those days!

Multi-channel was unheard of for mere mortals, but we knew that all Americans had an oil-well on their ranch and were millionaires.

Despite the primitive gear, it was great fun in the early 60's..Date of your Vid. shows how relatively slow post-war development was to mid-70's...it appears to have moved at exponential speed since then.

All fascinating stuff maybe my V1 Rap. 30 will be just as quaint in 20 years time.
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Great pic and story, Dave.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Markerbeacon
Key Veteran
Location: midwest

Quote 
Best I remember, it's entire main frame was solid cast/machined aluminum

Yup, that's right. How did your 90 degree tail drive hold up? I took the Helical gears out of mine more than once. What the heck was that thing anyway? Reminded me of a 90 degree tach drive or something.... And then the two goofy set screws that held the tail boom in place on the frame. Always ended up squashing the tail boom. The metal fan was press fit to the starting hub and I had several come loose in flight causing the engine to overheat and quit. A tig welder fixed that problem. Cyclic was incredibly slow. I still remember how amazed I was the first time I took it up and into fff flight. How much it flew like an airplane. Then when I was about 75 feet high I accidentally let the forward speed bleed off until I was in a hover. Well, that was the end of my Tri-Star.

Wish I had another

-Mark
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Quote 
maybe my V1 Rap. 30 will be just as quaint in 20 years time.

Some would argue that our V1 Rappys are quaint now!

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy® DON'T DISS THE DINO!!
12-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
alvinrc
Veteran
Location: Mobile, AL, USA

Quote 
Yup, that's right. How did your 90 degree tail drive hold up?
I don't remember any prob with that part, but do remember the Zip Starter. It was a short piece of toothed belt with wooden handle. You inserted the toothed belt in between a toothed metal sort of start hub and a metal shield that held it engaged and snatched the belt out which turned over the engine a few times. I think that I remember correctly that was starter for Tri-Star, if not, it was used on one of the early designs.

Often think about a revisit to some of these old designs, but the oldest chopper that i would really want back was the Hirobo LAMA with the wet gear box. Looked good, mechanics held up, and flew easy and in scale fashion.
12-04-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heli_headcase
Key Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Superbird!

Hi dkshema,

WOW, that's a great writeup on the Super! I'm glad you found that picture of you and the heli. I know there's nothing documenting my 1974-75 experiences with my Hughes other than a couple Polaroids I took of the heli the day before first flight (orange Hughes 300 in my gallery w/ orange and white blades). I'm pretty sure a friend shot 8mm movie film one time I was out "flying" but he won't admit to it. That time is lost forever.

Last night I did a lot of digging through my hard drives in an attempt to locate the AAM Superbird article as copied via my digital camera. Was going to suggest you add the files along side the Whirlybird instruction manual files. Given time I'll uncover those images. How would you like I get them to you?

OK guys on the Tri-Star subject. I'll eventually be starting a Tri-Star thread after a while. Don't forget to add what you remember to it when it's started unless you'd like to start one before I do. I won't mind


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

The AMA Lee Renaud museum has a bunch of issues of all sorts of magazines. When I visited the AMA museum several years ago, I made note that there were a lot of copies of American Aircraft Modeler. Unfortunately, they've not been digitized the same way that Model Aviation has been.

If someone had the magazines, it would be a snap to scan them to a PDF format and post them alongside the 505 manual.

If you happen across your pics of the articles, I'd think you could either email the files (if they're not humongous), or perhaps stick them on a DVD or CD-ROM and mail them to me.

There are times I think I'd like to resurrect a Schluter Heliboy, HeliStar, or even a Superior, and fly those old birds just one more time.

-----

* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
TonyF
Senior Heliman
Location: Southern CA

TonyF: As nuts as I am...

No problem, I've known for a long time I'm nuts. If you ever saw my house you'd have positive proof.

I just may have to get that 505 going next. You're video is certainly wanting me to get going.

The problem with the Jet Rangers occured before they came out with the hiller addition. The first ones did not have the flbar paddles move, they were just controlled through the main blades. The control was faster then the hiller only machines like the Hegi Cobras and DuBro machines, but it was not strong enough. So Kavan added the Hiller paddles. The first ones didn't use a washout, so they would move as the swashplate moved up and down for collective. The washout came later.

I did a lot of flying with the O&R Shark. I remember driving from my home in Erie, PA to Cleveland just to see a pilot who could do forward flight with a Shark. I saw him and then moved on to FF with mine. Sure was an exciting time then! I flew my Hughes quite a bit, but then I crashed it when the tail blades blew off in FF. No auto'ing down from that!

I bought my collective Shark back in 1978 when I first went to work for World Engines. That is also when I bought the TriStar. They were outdated machines then but World still had them in stock so I got them at the employee discount. I can't say I remember where that head went. I probably sold it cheap when the Schluter Heli-Boys came out. I'd love to get another just to add to my DuBro heli collection.

I've got the Scorpion body still untrimmed for mine. It would be a good idea to pull a mold off of it and make some glass ones. I just bought a new untrimmed body for the Shark off ebay. I think I'll do the same with it.

So many heli's to get going! But it's all fun!
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
jczankl
Veteran
Location: Noblesville, IN USA

I know a guy that can do the molds for you.

TeamBeam,Futaba,Cajun,WildCat,Duralite,MSBlaes, In Memory of John Gorham "Give it a Whirl"
12-05-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heli_headcase
Key Veteran
Location: Hovering around Atlanta

Scorpion body

Whoa boy, let me know what you intend and when. I'll need the Tri-Star body for "Go" myself. Some day would like to own an original or a really good copy in the original white ABS material.

I do have a new-in-box Du-Bro Enstrom fuse. It needs cloning too.


HHC

So many heli's - too little time...
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dialarotor
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

There is an ENSTROM body on EBAY right now for sale.

Also a listing for a HELI BABY

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schluter-GAS-PO...1QQcmdZViewItem


Numerous Champion parts also.

Carbon fiber paint stick maker
12-05-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Markerbeacon
Key Veteran
Location: midwest

Quote 
I've got the Scorpion body still untrimmed for mine. It would be a good idea to pull a mold off of it and make some glass ones. I just bought a new untrimmed body for the Shark off ebay. I think I'll do the same with it.

I no longer have a tri-star, but I'd buy a glass scorpion body from ya just to have one! Bet I'm not the only one, either. I'm sure there are several heli's today that body would adapt to. Always thought the scorpion looked cool!

Quote 
There is an ENSTROM body on EBAY right now for sale

Can't find it. Do you have a link?


-Mark
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Ebay link...you have to get creative in spelling "Enstrom" to find this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Scal...sspagenameZWDVW

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
12-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
dialarotor
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

Thanks for the link Dave, had to run out and plow the driveway and take our the garbage. Then to the workshop so I can finish my Caliber 5, don't want you to be the only Kyosho pilot out there.

Alway do several searches with various words, like "scale helicopter", Schluter helictopter, etc, etc, add and subtract words and you will get various searches. Got a pair of 710 MAH carbon blades new for 99 cents , guy had them in the wrong place and had no reserve. Same for a Hyper 50 onetime.

Carbon fiber paint stick maker
12-05-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dkshema
rrProfessor
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Dial---

Building a Caliber 5 -- if you haven't found the building tips over in the Kyosho forum, give me a holler, I'll dig 'em up and point you at 'em.

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* Making the World a Better Place -- One Helicopter at a time! *

Dave
12-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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