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Model Rectifier Corp . 3D Heli Depot . JR-Spektrum

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Henseleit 3DNT - Rocket - 3DMP > 3DNT, my first encounter
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hi folks,

Though I had been moving as many 3DNTs as I can get, it was until yesterday that I had the first flight on my own 3DNT. Let me tell you, to see is to believe, but to fly it myself is so much more fun!!!

Despite of my flu and uncontrolable work schedule, I managed to steal an hour 2 weeks ago to start up the flight ready 3DNT and on 4 tries, I couldn't lift it off. First 3 goes resulted in the 3DNT lying on its side with stripped cyclic servo gears and the fourth time even a boom strike.

What happened was that the 3DNT was placed on a granite floor and it developed some kind of resonance at 800~900 head speed to an extent that it vibrates badly and jumped off the skid and tried to destroy itself. Rapid exchange of email with Jan Henseleit confirmed that I should either lift off as soon as the vibration develops or try lifting off on softer ground. I had not experience with lifting off the 3DNT at all much less at 900rpm and did not want to risk loosing tail control altogether so I had my machinist made a set of cross members for the skid and retried yesterday on grass land.

There were still visible vibration during the 800~900rpm range but the heli did not jump off the skid anymore. I had my Webra 91 filthy rich as it was new, governor set to 1,300 normal, 1,500 idle up 1 and 1,650 idle up 2 with +/- 11 degree pitch in both idle modes. No exponential or dual rate any where.

First impression after lift off was that the helicopter was amazingly smooth, just sitted there waiting on control inputs and not jerky or touchy at all at 1,300rpm. Given the amazing stability, I though I might just try lifting off at 900 rpm as Jan suggested. I sat down the heli, waited till it spooled down and spooled up again, just as the vibration started, I push the collective up. The Webra with the rich mixture complained loudly but the 3DNT lifted off without the slightest hesitation and the tail was locked in real nice. So solid ground or not, with or without skid cross members, lack of experience on my part caused my earlier problems which will not repeated itself again.

After a couple of tanks, I leaned out the Webra by a tinny winny little bit and go into idle up one. Did some loops and rolls and smooth circuits because of the state of the engine, by the end of the thrid tank and a couple full pitch climb outs, I was tic-tocing up and down at 1,500 rpm. I must say this is something that I had never imagined before. If I have anything less than 1,750rpm on another helicopter, I would not even attempt such a move. What I experienced was that the 3DNT did the tic-toc at 1,500 rpm just like my VisionX at 1,900rpm but without the jerkyness and the noise.

I have not gotten into idle up 2 yet and will try after another gallon or so. But so far, I am more than impressed, I am actually amazed. The 3DNT is not really a day to day machine for me but I am quite sure that in between email responses, my Fury and VisionX and zillion other little things, I will take it up for a tank or 2 whenever I can, it is so graceful that to me, the 3DNT will do what soft music do to most others, get me relaxed!!!

Needless to say, not too many people got their emails replied to yesterday :-)

Now that I have some experience on the moving flybar system under my belt, I will start up my Webra 145 equipped Rocket in the near future.

Lastly, time your flights!!!! There is no way to install a visible header tank or visually check on fuel level. Also, paint your canopy as bright as possible and DON'T use black for the windscree area. Use a contrasting bright color.

My 3DNT set up:

-Latest generation 3DNT right hand rotation kit (ex-factory 11/02)
-Webra 91AAR clockwise rotating engine (clockwise one-way start shaft from Henseleit used)
-Hatori 700 pipe at 450mm
-GY601 w/S9251 gyro
-S9206 on the cyclic, going to change to 9350
-710mm Modelsport 3D Competition Pro main blades
-102mm Modelsport tail blades (this is not recommended but I cannot refuse the temptation)
-Weston UK 5% nitro 7% oil competition fuel
-GV1 governor

Stephen
02-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
acme
Heliman
Location:

thanks Stephen, we love NT so much, just waiting a new Version parts for my NT, and i dont have vibration(dont use carbon tail blade), 95mm plastic blade is ok! and i also use my Vsharp skid, Sliver blade....
Extreme Machine
02-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Andi G
Veteran
Location: Switzerland

Hi Stephen,

"Bitte keine Carbon - Heckblätter verwenden, da sie zu steif sind und in Verbindung mit den NT - Aluheckblatthaltern zu feinen Vibrationen führen können, die unter Umständen zu Schwingungsbrüchen führen."

This is from the German page, on the English page Jan only writes "Do not use carbon tail blades, they are not flexible enough and cause vibrations on this helicopter."

The first one means carbon tails are too stiff for the NT with its alu blade grips, the fine vibrations can destroy them...
You're risking another crash! The whole tail grip unit is really stiff so you should use softer blades to get some dampening.

I wish you a lot of fun with your NT!

Regards,

Andi
02-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hi Andi,

Thanks for the reminder, I know that is not recommended but I simply couldn't find a pair of plastic blades in my whole damn store and the carbon blades look soooo good

Stephen
02-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Andi G
Veteran
Location: Switzerland

Hi,

I can understand that

Regards,

Andi
02-28-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Carps
Veteran
Location: Caterham, Surrey, England

I was under the impression that the latest mods to the NT mean you can run carbon tails. I was told this by Revolution Models, and I believe Jan confirmed it also,

I was running SAB 105s but have recently changed to NHP 95s and have no vibration problems at all.

Stephen, I think your problem may have been spooling up on a hard surface, the stiffness of the undercarriage, and the footprint of the skids.

Anyway, good luck with the NT. I love mine. Had some bad experiences with the Webra though I've just bought the OS91 that Jan recommends and I'm going to give that a go to see if it is any better. I had no confidence in the Webra as it keeps stopping - usually on lift off after flying round for a bit and then taking a minutes rest. The engine isn't running hot. It has stopped twice in flight. I think it is getting too rich in the mid-range but playing with the needles brings vibrations. Too much fiddling and not enough flying was getting me down. Hopefully the OS will be less troublesome even if it is less powerful. I'm sure it'll be enough for me for now.

Fingers crossed for the inaugural flight of my OS powered NT tomorrow...
02-28-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hi Carps,

I think your Webra problem is pipe length. At the standard length with NT header and Hatori 700, the engine is kinda hard to tune. I would suggest you decrease the pipe length little by little and give that another go. I am having lots of fun with the Webra at 440mm

Re tail for carbon blades, I need to confirm with Jan as a couple of days ago he was saying that the mod should be incorporated in the May production giving me the impression that it is still not incorporated.

Stephen
03-01-2003 Over year old.
 
 
yapjy
Key Veteran
Location: Singapore

Hi stephen,
U got my heart itching for a 3DNT.

Haha, I will get one as my dream machine in the future!
Maybe it's cheaper to own it in a dream...just kidding.
03-01-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Kaos
Senior Heliman
Location: Los Angeles, CA

First flight blues

I brought the heli into a stable hover and...one landing gear fell off. The short story is I ordered parts and hopefully will be flying this weekend.
03-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Carps
Veteran
Location: Caterham, Surrey, England

Doh !

Unlucky Kaos

No-one likes to hear about a crash, especially something like that. How long into the flight before it fell off, and how long did you hover contemplating how you were going to land the thing with the least damage ?

I think if that happened to me I'd hit the throttle hold and wipe off as much rotor speed as possible until it couldn't hover any more.

Hope you get it fixed soon.

I have just had my first flights with my new OS powerplant in place of the Webra. Difficult to give overall impressions yet as I am still running in, but first impressions are good and I am optimisitic that I have done the right thing swapping out the Webra. It has certainly been easy so far - nice and smooth and seems more torquey than the Webra.
Flight times are almost double anything I ever had with the Webra and the fuel is nearly half the price.
I just hope the power is there when I start to push it....
03-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Kaos
Senior Heliman
Location: Los Angeles, CA

I was up for less than a minute. There were 10 things that I could have done, all of them better.

I will post pictures of the modification I made so that this will not happen again.
03-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
johnb
Key Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey UK

One of the guys i fly with had problems with the Hatori 700 on a Webra91 in a Fury - despite the correct length to baffle. He majorily cheated and installed a GV1 and mixture carb (servo slung under header tank) - now it's sweet through the entire range and simply requires a quick tranny tweak to remove rich/lean spots.

now try fitting a mixture carb on the 3dnt!

jb.
03-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Carps
Veteran
Location: Caterham, Surrey, England

Fitting the mixture carb and extra servo wouldn't be a problem.
My problemis the £75 for the carb and similar for servo to keep up with my throttle servo !
I may resort to this solution yet, but I'm giving the OS a fair crack first.
03-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
johnb
Key Veteran
Location: Guildford, Surrey UK

for the amount of movement in a throttle servo or a mixture servo connected to a govenor i think you'd be hard pushed to notice a difference between a crappy old Futaba 3001 (sorry, don't know JR equivalent) and however an expensive servo you put in it's place.

I would guess people use midrange servo's there to ensure reliability not speed,

take a look HERE

jb.
03-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

GV1 response speed is slower than the S3001

Stephen
03-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

Stephen

The GV1 control response is 20ms = 0.020s (according to the manual).
The S3001 speed is 0.23s / 60 degrees.

What do you mean by "GV1 response speed is slower than the S3001"

Tim
03-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Specification is one thing and how I feel when I fly with a GV1 is another thing.

I felt that the throttle response is not as fast as I would like and definitely not as fast as the specifications say so i hook up a GV1 on a motor and load the shaft by gripping the crankshaft through a piece of leather.
Very primitive set up but I was able to see the throttle movement. The servo output was also monitored on a scope.

That's how I found out that the GV1 actually response a lot slower than specifications.

Stephen
03-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

Stephen,

Interesting test! Was the GV1 also slow to respond when you let go of the shaft and it had to close the throttle?

This is what most people already expected but some (including me) still weren't sure of. This setup proves it.

Thanks,

Tim
03-06-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Stephen
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

TVhalter

Yes, it does, both ways.

Stephen
03-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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Henseleit 3DNT - Rocket - 3DMP > 3DNT, my first encounter
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