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Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower

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Main Discussion > Chinese weights on the tail grips
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

I've been meaning to play around with this for a while to minimise the servo loading when the tail blades are at anything other than zero pitch. The forces on the servo can be quite astonishing and greatly impair the servo speed.
Well then, I got round to it today. With the heli strapped down on a bench and driving the main shaft with an electric drill, I could fiddle about to my hearts content to find the optimum weights. The weights themselfes are simply a longer blade grip bolt with spacers and a nut. I found that the system can be tuned quite easily, and independently setup the left and right pitch all the way to being over pitchy, ie, the blades try to go to full pitch which ofcourse is not desirable. Symmetrical balance is without doubt the preferred setup, weighted such that the blades simply stay on pitch with zero force on the pitch linkage.
Got more fiddling to do in order to find the sweet spot, and it'll also be interesting to find out how much the gyro gain can be reduced with the consequent improvement in servo life, servo gear wear and number of flights on the battery. It will also be interesting to find out if the weights need tuning for different tail blade lengths, weights and profiles.

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-27-2007 11:51 PM
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Battery life will be improved without doubt. A 9254 servo (for example) consumes almost 50% more than a 9252 servo (checked myself with a mAH logger) so any relief you can provide will be benefitial.

Just changing from a 9254 to a 9252 on the throttle of a 600N changed TOTAL flight consumption from an average of 334mAh down to 271mAH AVERAGE

Makes you think hem?

TOny


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
10-27-2007 11:59 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

Crikey that's alot. I've never measured the consumption of the 9254 like that but 334mA to 271mA on throttle alone is dramatic.
Once I've characterised the weighting system more fully, I'll apply it to my R90 which still has a 601/9251; the 9251 does get quite warm, so with a well balanced 'chinese' TR the tail servo 'should' be working more or less unloaded apart from intertial linkage forces. One thing I've found on my Raptors is how quickly the pitch slider ball wears.
Given the large number of advantages with this simple mod, I can't help thinking about it's application on the main blades. When I started with helis, I was one of the idiots who strapped his heli down on the bench and spooled up to check tracking and stuff. This would be a great way to experiment with main blade chinese weights but I value my life too much. The other aspect of this is that TBs work symmetrically, but the head is asymmetrical with some cyclic input; so I wonder if the chinese weight idea may not be so relevant.

Perhaps try it with my Trex450 and a foo shield with holes to get my hands on the linkages

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 12:25 AM
 
 
Taipan
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

What I wanna know is if it works so well, why don't all manufacturers have them on their helis??

Too lazy to try for myself!
10-28-2007 12:33 AM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

Perhaps if taking the synical view, then because the mod would offer greater longevity to various bits and pieces, this is not financially in the manufacturers interest. I don't like being a cynic so perhaps they just haven't done sufficient R&D.

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 12:37 AM
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

GAZAUR has weights on the blades themselves now....and another company(I forget)has weights molded into the tail blade grips...there is a long discussion(with pics) of this on the T-rex forum...and on that other freaky site

PerformancePlusRC field rep
TT Mini Titan/MTSE
TT E550
HBK2
Futaba FASST
10-28-2007 12:43 AM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts



This was something I discussed a good while back which seemed to be a logical concept, but then came across the perpendicular weights which I've been playing with. I'm not so bothered about small electric helis, but rather 50 and 90 size machines which are under serious loads and where the pilots are more demanding with specific preferances to particular manufacturers blades. Vs, Radix, NHPs, SABs etc all offer different advantages/disadvantages.

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 01:04 AM
 
 
ckoelliker
Key Veteran
Location: St. Simons, GA

Quote 
I'm not so bothered about small electric helis, but rather 50 and 90 size machines which are under serious loads and where the pilots are more demanding with specific preferances to particular manufacturers blades. Vs, Radix, NHPs, SABs etc all offer different

If you can sift through the entire t-rex thread, there are some good posts, which I think would be relevant for the larger helicopters.
10-28-2007 01:12 AM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

Yup, there's some really good info there...........
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t374039

I'll have to have a word with Bud about this..


Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 01:20 AM
 
 
ZXXflyer
Key Veteran
Location: stone mountain, georgia, US

Hmmm ... I'm interested in all this too.

Believer in Weston motors!
10-28-2007 02:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
PietervA
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

Henseleit has done this for years:

http://www.henseleit-helicopters.de/index2.html

Picture of a typical tail near the bottom of the page.

R
10-28-2007 05:48 AM
 
 
JRjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Portage, IN

Interesting.Hmmm....

I want to know more about how this works on the larger nitro heli's..

I won't start the jokes this time.


JRjoe
10-28-2007 06:21 AM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

This seems to work pretty well, with fairly smooth and unrestricted control either way................



Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 02:04 PM
 
 
Boidman
Key Veteran
Location: Lipo Alley

Loverly. Shank or external wrinkles, through the blades?
10-28-2007 02:19 PM
 
 
SkateFreak
Key Veteran
Location: Cambs UK/Luton

Hmmmm,
I have a slight wag issue on my 600n at the moment...
Maybe I'll jst give this a shot in the dark and hope

-Jvr
10-28-2007 02:43 PM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

Coincidence, I've literally just finished watching "A shot in the dark" with the kids

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 04:07 PM
 
 
Andy from Sandy
Veteran
Location: UK

I wasn't there but I think Colin Mill explained all of this at 3D Masters. He used a 10mm longer bolt on a 50. He had the long bit of the bolt inboard toward the boom though.
10-28-2007 06:05 PM
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: UK. Herts

Hi Andy, I was there, standing in the mud at the back of the tent and couldn't hear a word due to the bloody rain pounding the canvas
I tried the extra long bolt (+10mm) but it tends to mainly correct in one direction although the force is reduced in the other.

Vegetable rights and Peace
10-28-2007 06:24 PM
 
 
Barney
Key Veteran
Location: Inverness Scotland

Yes the demo rig used at 3DM was assymetric.

Skate...Still struggling with your tail?

Try going back to basics and grap the tail boom and give it a really good pull each way..the stays..even pinned ones come loose after a while at the ends. Also the boom clamps too including the Align metal one. The plastic bridge deforms after a while so try giving it a good twist to check.
10-28-2007 06:29 PM
 
 
GyroFreak
Key Veteran
Location: Florida ... 28° 50' N 81° 16' W

Yug, are those your sandels ??? Ya got ugly toes

Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have. !
10-28-2007 06:44 PM
 
 
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Main Discussion > Chinese weights on the tail grips
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