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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Blades for Flybarless (Just Uploaded 450 Flybarless Pictures)
 
 
Eco8gator
Key Veteran
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Hello All

Chris and I have been working hard to develop the Probar and have made a lot of realizations.

The blades we found to work the best are the 150g Thunder Tiger 600mm blades on his TREX 600 flybarless. Heavier blades that have some flex in them work really well with the Probar.

We tried V Blades with his T600 and found that the stiff light(125-135g) blades didn't work as well and we think it had to do with excessive vibes going through the air frame because the blades lack flex. During hard transitions the gyros would twitch(including the tail) but blades with flex seemed to alliveate this problem.

So, were happy that we can use much cheaper blades, get more performance and stability on Chris' flybarless TREX 600 than a flybar 600 with V Blades.

As for the 450 sized, our only option was to use V Blades(strong wood core). The big reason is we have to modify the blades to get any usable stability. When you remove the flybar system on a 450 there is a >25% disk mass loss in comparison to removing the flybar system on a Logo 10 sized heli with ~90g blades or a T600 with ~150(both around a 10% disk mass loss). The 450 is almost unflyable with out stabilization but is controllable with the Probar active.

Here is a big secret folks...the machine must be flyable with the stabilization system off(0 gain) for the stabilization to make the heli preform extreamly well. I can only speak for the Probar but here is a challenge try a flybarless heli(with some of the other systems) with the 500mm RCP blades(75g a piece) and let me know how it works out

Our solution for the loss in rotating mass on the T-REX 450 was to use custom 25g V Blades with the weight concentrated near the tip(specifics and pics coming soon). The CG is just a little up from the middle of the blade. The 450 flys great with this blade BUT if the blade had some flex Im 100% sure that the heli will fly absolutely perfect. Right now during extreamly fast transitions the vibes from the disk can make the gyro(including the tail) to twitch a little.

When we changed from V blades to TT blades on the TREX 600 the performance increase was remarkable. We could crank the gain up even more and over all his heli flys better than anything hes ever owned(stabaility, performance and flight time). A video is coming this week.

Carlo
10-22-2007 04:17 AM
 
 
bathmagic
Senior Heliman
Location: Berwick,Victoria, Australia

flybarless

Thanks that is interesting information there,
there has been a few posts about blades for flybarless systems

I eagerly await your video !

Thanks Dale

3DMP , Vbar 600 "Innovation" The key to success !
10-22-2007 05:09 AM
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"Cam"
Veteran
Location: Japan

Very interesting post.

Makes sense if it won't fly without the probar it's not gonna fly that nice!

DSX9
TRex 600, 500, 450
Hurricane 550
Yak 180, 40% Extra - 15S
Custom eRaptor 700
10-25-2007 01:17 AM
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

Thanks for the update Carlos. Keep me on your customer wait list my friend.

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
Major USAF
Retired
10-25-2007 07:25 AM
 
 
Eco8gatorKey Veteran - Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL -
I have you in mind Boyd

Modified 450 V Blades.



The blades weigh 25g a piece and the CG a little closer to the tip in comparison to a std V Blade. With this config the TREX is hoverable and you can do some manuvers but you need a stabalization system to minimize/elminate the bad tendancies...and there are a lot of them.

Here is a pic of my flybarless 450.



Check my gallery for more picture.

Carlo
10-25-2007 11:45 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Carlo that looks AWESOME! I have been following your progress since day one.

IF you dont mind here is what i have done with my little rex for flybarless.

It is working extremely well, i have no stabilization at all. I am using all standard non modified trex450 parts. the washout base is flipped upside down to set correct phasing, and the changed the screws that hold the washout arms to the base to be a little longer so they lock against the guide pins to lock the washout base to the main shaft. The only other thing i did was offset the ball link for the blade grip by using longer screws. I could have cut off the other end of the washout arm that isn't being used but i wanted to leave them stock in case i wanted to throw my stock all metal V2 head back on.

For the blades i added layers of extra sticky electrical tape to the leading edge of the blade which added 5 grams to the leading edge which brought their weight up to 25grams as well and has really helped in stability.

I have to say so far its working amazingly well for no stabilization. in a forward flight it doesn't really drift or wander at all. I have had to really program and dial my tx though. I am a hard 3d pilot and i have gotten the heli dialed to the point were i might try and start throwing it around, but it does get a little wishy washy when i start to push it so a stabilizer would really help.

Let me know if you ever need another test pilot for your system, i would gladly pay for the unit.





-Derek
10-26-2007 04:59 PM
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Eco8gator
Key Veteran
Location: Palm Beach Gardens, FL

Hello Derek

You decribed it exactily. When you finally get the correct blades made so the TREX is flyable but still requires an extra something to make it feel "locked", like it would be with a flybar stabilizied machine, through manuvers. The Logo 10 flybarless actually hovers and flys around quite well with no stabalization...pretty funny actually, but try doing manuvers like funnels, piro flips, ticktocks, ect... Youll find that the heli wanders all over and is a handful to keep on line but still very flyable in the right hands.

Carlo
10-26-2007 06:42 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Carlo,
Exactly. The little rex performs very good with no stabilization and i was honestly quite surprised. I hope to see how much of a handful the bird becomes doing 3d this weekend. Should be fun

I defiantly cant wait for your probar to be ready, and i hope to see it working well on 50/90size nitro birds. I have always wanted wanted to convert my knight 50 3d or my avant 90 to flybarless, but just cant afford the gyros and mixer right now.

-Derek
10-26-2007 06:48 PM
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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > Blades for Flybarless (Just Uploaded 450 Flybarless Pictures)
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