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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > aviation
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
10-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
gmebey
Veteran
Location: Fort Collins, CO

Hmm I think you are saying pilot error is major cause of safety issues (lack of safety).

If it is neglect then I call it “natural de-selection”.

Just for the record...there is a lot of stuff that is unsafe if it not respected, cars, plane, trains, automobiles……tools!

.

"Once you are in RC you are in for life. You may go away but it will draw you back." By an
10-16-2007 12:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

Hey gmebey,
I think this would apply to all aspects from design to manufacturing to building to setup to flying to....

The point is that there is no room for mistakes.

The best way to avoid problems is to find them while still on the ground by always checking everything over every time you go to fly. Come up with a good preflight check list and stick to it just like the full scale pilots do. Its all about check lists and procedures.

Happy flying and be safe.
10-16-2007 03:53 PM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

I've always been annoyed by that. It seems to me that anything that is unforgiving of mistakes and involves humans is inherently dangerous, given that fallibility is part of being human.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
10-16-2007 07:14 PM
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

Well put WLFK.
10-16-2007 11:31 PM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

Thanks, Proline. Incidentally, I didn't mean to be too argumentative as I know there's some truth in the statement. But at the same time it's something I've been ruminating about for years.

I first started to hear this when I was a member of the local hang-gliding club. Whenever someone hurt themselves we would have a 'safety report' analysing everything that had led up to the crash. There was inevitably a list of 2-3 factors that had contributed to each accident. It was an excellent exercise and in many ways very healthy. But there was also something about it that bothered me.

In some way, people felt that by understanding the risks of what they were doing, they were mastering them. It's hard to express exactly what I mean, but it was providing some form of 'illusion of control' that people were using as a crutch to enable them to carry on flying. Cognitively, we all knew that what we were doing was dangerous. But I think the majority of us were living in some degree of denial and in some way the safety reports contributed to this.

~~~~~~~~

On my first solo, I was slope soaring with the hill on my left when a thermal picked up my outside (right) wing and turned me so I was flying directly towards the slope. I applied full weight shift to turn right but there was no reaction. The side of the hill was starting to get closer very fast, yet the 'textbook' approach was to pull on extra speed, which increases the responsiveness of the glider. To give some indication of how alarming this was, my flying speed was probably just over 20mph, with a 15-20mph tailwind. After pulling the nose down to gain speed, my airspeed was probably 30-35mph, whilst only a few hundred yards out from the hillside.

I knew what was happening with the thermal, so I figured I had two possible courses of action. One was to hope that the glider would be willing to turn right now that it had extra airspeed. The second possibility was to try to turn left and do an inside turn - very much forbidden but I still think it would have been a reasonable course of action given my glider's apparent reluctance to turn right. In the event I decided to turn right, and it worked. Just. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that I was only a few seconds away from a major accident. Certainly there wasn't enough time to try anything else. The whole thing lasted only a few seconds.

On the way down to land I realised two things: one was that I had at least a smidgeon of 'the right stuff'*. Hitting the accelerator when I was already rushing straight for the hill was very counter-intuitive. Yet I'd done exactly the right thing in a calm and reasoned manner. My other thought was that if anything had gone wrong, I would have been lambasted in the club safety report. And sure enough, when I landed I got a rollocking from my white-faced instructor for having started to do what appeared to be an inside turn towards the hill. Against strict instructions. Had I died - and this is not being melodramatic - I would have been remembered as a nice guy, but perhaps not quite true pilot material. Distressing as this thought is, I wouldn't feel resentful anyone for having thought it: how else could we carry on?

K

* Hang glider pilots are all frustrated fighter pilots, apart from the lucky few who fly fighter jets on weekdays.

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
10-17-2007 01:40 AM
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

No problem Wlfk,
I know where you are coming from. Sounds to me like you did what you were trained to do even though you started to go against procedure. It was that split decision that made the difference.

Funny how we are more worried about how fellow pilots will react if we make a mistake then how close we come to disaster. Seems like it is much clearer to those on the ground what you should do because they are not having to react correctly to the situation. Like Gmebey said its not the plane, train, car or heli that is dangerous, it's us not doing what we are trained to do in a timely manner. When the #### hits the fan procedure is all we have left. Saved many many lives as well as my own.

You clearly have a pilot mentality where you take responsibility for your actions before and after you make them instead of just going dumb thumbs so to speak. I would bet money that all of your helies are in top shape and those that are not stay on the ground. Safety starts on the ground and before the unexpected happens.

There is no way to eliminate danger but you can minimize it by thinking like you do. I would go up with you anytime.
10-17-2007 02:38 PM
 
 
sceaduboy
Senior Heliman
Location: London, UK / Hong Kong

Here's a fact: full size aviation is the safest transportation method in the world. Its good to have a pilot which is to a degree paranoid, which drives him to check every safety aspects of the aircraft which is going to be operated, and directly influence the well-being of the other people related to the flight, like the passengers. This doesn't only apply to full size aviation, it also works for models, as it is still an aircraft, and the bystanders is also related to the aircraft, so if any incidents happen, it happens like in full scale and people might get hurt or killed.

Evo 50, Rappy 90, T-Rex on the bench, need rebuilding
10-17-2007 03:44 PM
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

Right on the money Sceaduboy. Could not have said it better.
10-17-2007 03:47 PM
 
 
wlfk
Veteran
Location: uk

Thank you for your kind words Proline.

I only have one heli, and it's a bit battered and scraped round the edges. But it has loctite everywhere it needs to.

K

A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
10-18-2007 02:52 AM
 
 
500Driver
Senior Heliman
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL

The Preflight

Better to be down here wishing you were up there....

Than up there wishing you were down here.

The trouble with the 'accident chain'...the events leading up to the accident...is that when it is happening around you, you don't see it. Like the saying 'hindsight is 20/20'...much easier to piece it together after the fact.

Being careful is not always enough...it's far more complicated and dynamic...truly an infinite number of variables and 'what ifs'.

So what's the poor aviator to do? Really all he/she can...maintain situational awareness, eliminate complacency, and learn from the mistakes of others because you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

When in doubt...auto out
10-18-2007 02:41 PM
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

500 sounds like the real deal. We need to learn from the 1.1 folks. They know the risks better then we ever will. Well said 500.
10-24-2007 03:30 PM
 
 
TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Quote 
500 sounds like the real deal.

He is.... even though I only know him in a virtual sense from his musings on another well known model helicopter forum.

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy®
10-24-2007 10:28 PM
 
 
atibert
Heliman
Location: Minto, ND USA

We have this same poster at our airport (full scale)
and I read it often and try and live by its wisdom.
11-07-2007 01:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Proline
Heliman
Location: Austin,Texas

Hey Atibert,
Would that poster show what looks like a Jinny stuck in the top of the only tree around? I like what 500Driver said. Better to be down here wishing you were up there....Than up there wishing you were down here.
11-12-2007 02:43 AM
 
 
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