RunRyder - Club rules for safety

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Club rules for safety

Raptor xp
Heliman
Location: Bevier, Mo

[size=large]Our club is getting ready to adopt rules to make sure heli pilots are ready for forward flight. As many R\C clubs have rules for planker pilots to "solo" I'm not seeing any rules on checking heli pilots. I know The two are different but we are just looking to be safe. We are not adopting solo rules just some guidelines to move from hover circles to flight line. My question is do any other clubs have such rules or ideas, we are just trying to make it safe!

09-25-2007 12:48 PM

Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Yep its called commen sense. We have distance rules which are basicly what the ama says in thier guidelines on being away from the heli. thats basicly about it. but every new member has to be checked out with the lead instructor of the club (which is me) before they can fly on thier own there be it planker or heli. I find that most people with half alick of commen sense will follow commen sense abotu safety and not flying in a way to hurt others or property. I find the ones that whine and complain about rules which most are just commen snese are the ones that you have to watch and when they fly you want to hide under your trucks.

09-25-2007 01:51 PM

fritzthecat
Key Veteran
Location: New Orleans

More rules = less fun.
Once you start making up rules, it generally snowballs from there. Soon you have a fulltime club lawyer on retainer and have to built a clubhouse to store the volumes of rule books.

There should be only one rule:
Fly safe.

Fritz

'Send Money, Women and Guns!'

09-25-2007 02:35 PM

Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Quote
More rules = less fun

I dont like a lot of rules myself but I have to disagree with this some rules are needed as some people are just dumb and unless they have it in black and white in front of them they dont have a clue. At our field we have one rule that if you break it your out of the club. Reason for the still penalty for this is if that rule is broken we lose our field. If you drive on the runway your out of the club and hope and pray the owners dont see you driving on it. we are not possed to fly before 9am field owner rules and ther are a couple of others that are just commen sense like pick up your trash if you see any pick it up take it with you yet we still have a couple of members we had to get on for littering and such and had issues with two members for driving on the runway. These rules that we had to adopt into our clud for this field have not taken anything away from the fun of flying. All they have done is to protect our field. its when you get stupid rules like no picking your nose no farting crap like that yea I know they sound stupid but I belonged to a club once that had them for rules yes there are some stupid rules but commen snes is all the rules most need if you think its unsafe well guess what it is. some rules are needed.

09-25-2007 03:19 PM

Theedge540
Heliman
Location: Columbia MO U.S.A.

I am the clubs safety officer of RaptorXP flying site and I agree on not making to many rules. Takes some of the fun out of the hobby. Since we are on leased grown and with the large influx of new heli pilots this year we are just trying to set down a few guide lines that will make it safe for other members standing on the flight line along side of the new Heli pilots. We are not going to make so many rules as to discourage new Heli pilots but rather to make sure that they have a certain amount of control over their Heli before they get out in front of up to 20-30 other pilots setting 40 feet away. We will not make any kind of rule for T-Rex 450 size Heli's just .30 size and up. RaptorXP has brought up the IRCHA proficiency program level 1 for guidance.

http://ircha.org/wp-content/publica...20Level%20I.pdf

We have a new member that says he flys good on the G3.5 and thinks that he can go straight from hovering in one of our hover circles to inverted on the flightline!

Our club has had to enact a solo program for planes this year because of a new pilot last year that thought he did not have to listen to the advice of our members. He went to the field on his own when no one was there and decided that he could fly without any help. This new pilot ended up flying his new trainer right through the roof of our club pavilion and we haven't seen him since. I know it is not always a good thing to make rules but for the safety of the members and to keep the owner of the land that our great club sits on feeling that we are a responsible club we have to do something. As Helicopters are becoming more and more popular we are trying to incourage safety first then once you have learned to fly go as crazy as you want just don't ruin things for the rest of the club.

Sorry so long winded!!
Theedge540

09-26-2007 02:23 PM

Bad Karma
Veteran
Location: UK

Let me guess (ignore if I am wrong about this), but the suggestion of forward flight being the benchmark was a plankers suggestion, correct?

Funny that, planes do that by default, so logically they are wanting a higher standard from heli pilots than they have to attain eqivalently.

It would be fairer to compare a steady hover at a constant height while tail in, to FF on a plane.

Dont let the plankers (planes and nothing but planes) set this rule, they usually have no understanding of helicopter flight and piloting, so are applying what they do from the get go to helis, where the same thing is further on comparitivly speaking.

Now, I am flying at intermediate 3D level, and am teaching two or three people to fly at the moment, when I look at the plankers flying at the local field, they should not be suggesting safety rules to anyone

With plankers vs helis, its usually a case of them pointing out the splinter in our eyes while forgetting the oak tree in theirs, not a reasonable source to be getting rules from.

09-27-2007 03:58 AM

Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

One thing that reallys bugs me are the people that keep lumping all plankers as some like to call them into one pile. Not all plankers are bad. We have several plankers at our club that really think the helis are cool but will be the first to admit they could never fly one due to thier age and the learning curve but they dont have a thing against helis. Yet I have seen a lot of "heli only" guys that are the complete pit of rudeness towards anyone else including even other heli guys. so I feel this lumping all plankers into one pile is wrong. Whe we set the rules at our new club field which were mainly mandated by the owners of the property the rules apply to all helis planes both and guess what we have no arguments or fights over them. Switch26 came out and flew last sunday with me and was in complete amazment at how well everyone gets along he can not believe the respect these guys who fly planes only gave to just the heli guys and the space they gave them all on the same runway no you got to fly over there no you cant fly when planes are up nothing. Planes and helis can coexist but it takes a little give and take on both sides. as for rules as the thread was originaly started for yes you got to have rules to keep idiots inline and have something to get on them about if they break commen sense thats all a person needs is commen sense but rules to enforce anything. You will always get some idiot that will say well that wasnt a rule so they think they can get away with doing something thats wrong in all aspects of commen sense hence the rules deal with it life is full of rules weather we like them or not.

09-27-2007 01:54 PM

Theedge540
Heliman
Location: Columbia MO U.S.A.

Mutt,
I agree with you. If you look at my name on here "THE EDGE 540" I am one of those plank flyers. As a matter of fact I can hover a plane better then I can a heli! I have only been flying Heli's for a year now and can forward flight, flip and roll and hold inverted up high but that is about it. Our club until last year only had 3-4 Heli pilots until RaptorXP and I came along. I have only been flying R/C for 4 years now but I like planes and have always wanted to fly Heli's. So for me it a natural move to heli's. This year our club has had a big influx of new pilots that want to fly Heli's and have never flown planes. Most are working on getting soloed on planes so they will have a better chance of keeping control of their Heli's. Our club has no problem with sharing the flight line with heli's and planes at the same time. We are only wanting to make sure that when a new pilot goes to the flight line with his .50 size Heli and other guys are flying there 36% extra at the same time in the same air space the guy flying his plane doesn't have to worry about the new pilot hitting them blind side with a heli. Our club doesn't want the heli pilots to have to do more then the planker have to do. Our club only requires that plankers start their planes,taxi out, take off,fly the pattern both ways, do a figure 8 and land safely. Heli pilots will have to hover tail in, slide left and hold,slide right and hold, hover laterally both ways and do a tail in circle and a circle hover with the pilot in the center of the circle. After showing that they can do that they are free to get on the flight line with the plankers. Remember this is a volunteer thing that the club is trying to do to self police ourselves. No planker have called for this to be done,it is the few heli pilots at the club that came up with it to keep new incoming heli pilots learning control before they go out on the flight line with other pilots and possibly hurting themselves or other people. The 4-5 members including myself that have been flying helis in forward flight and are coming up with the test will be taking the test first before it is given to any other pilots. We will have to go back to the hover circle until we can prove that we can do what we are asking other rotorheads to do.

Thanks
Theedge540

09-27-2007 02:56 PM

Bad Karma
Veteran
Location: UK

Our club is full of the traditional breed of plankers, a good example is what happened the other week, every one of them was standing arround talking while one of them was tinkering with an engine for ages, no one was flying mainly because they didnt like the wind conditions (all complaining about a 15 mph wind

)

Anyway, since no one is flying I decide I will, I've flown in worse, THE second I start my engine the guy playing with his engine hurridly starts up, quickly followed by two others, and the three then proceed to fly in relay, one would land and refuel and take off then another then another for nearly an hour, and they wouldnt have flown at all given the wind..... but no, we cant be having a heli flying about can we

Plankers... wankers.

09-27-2007 07:31 PM

Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

I agree with you on the testing its just safety commen sense. At our new field a new member has to demonstrate to me that they can fly before they can fly alone there (I am the lead instructor and safety officer). As we have a few obstacles there which are way out of the way but you never know. With our field we do not pay a lease or rent its free but the property owners do have some rules that all have to agree to like no driving on the runway no flying before 9am stuff like that.Our solo is about like yours take off fly the pattern dictated by the wind do a figure 8 touch and goes in both directions wind permitting stuff like that helis basicly hover in all directions slide hold like you guys and then show proficient flight in ff etc. I been flying planes for over 40 years always will. ! thing we do is if a newbie on a buddy box is up no one else goes up untill the newb is comfortable with trying multi planes at one time (they got enough to worry about not peeing thier britches) and for the most part when we do get a group toghter flying its basicly one up at a time its really nice that way we also have east/west and a north/south runway makes it nice for our club and for everyone to get along.

09-27-2007 07:38 PM

Theedge540
Heliman
Location: Columbia MO U.S.A.

Bad Karma,
I am sorry to here that your club is that way. I should feel blessed that mine is not. Since I am basically a Sunday Flyer because I work 6 days a week the field is not real busy most of the Sundays that I go. Saturdays are the busy day I think. We do have rules about flying before 10:00 am because the runway is North to South and we face the East. We have a house that is owned by the man who owns the land our club is setting on and the house is rented out to people and it is about 1/8 mile away. We fly over it all the time so we don't want to make the tenants mad and have them go screaming to the owner of the land. We are only limiting the new Heli pilots to the hover circle until they can hover well enough to go to the flight line. We decided that if no one was around but Heli pilots any of them can fly on the flight line. We also decided that if there wern't any objections from anyone then they could fly on the flight line as long as no one else was flying. no to hard at our field because everone likes to talk as much as they do fly..

Theedge540

09-27-2007 08:14 PM

sceaduboy
Senior Heliman
Location: London, UK / Hong Kong

I just don't get why do plankers just hate the helis? They are different but, in the end, still flying machines. I would disagree with flying planks before helis, because the whole control feel is different. New heli pilots in my opinion must listen to the experienced heli pilots, as most of them are trying to helping you out. I must agree on the safety is common sense, and if you can't fly safely, pratice, but don't be arrogant. Perfect pratice makes perfect.

Not trying to start an argument, any corrections welcome.

sceaduboy

Evo 50, Rappy 90, T-Rex on the bench, need rebuilding

10-17-2007 04:50 PM

Theedge540
Heliman
Location: Columbia MO U.S.A.

sceaduboy,

You have a good point about learning from an experienced heli pilot but there are just too many new want to be heli pilots that think just because they bought a simulaton and can fly a heli on it they can come out to a club, join and get out on the flight line with other pilots flying planks or heli's and that is endangering a lot of other pilots. I was only implying that they get a little experience flying something other then a simulator before they step out on the flight line and get someone hurt or cause another pilot to crash a heli or in my case a 36% Extra that I like so much! My club does not have any problem sharing the sky with anything that flys only new pilots that could hurt someone or cause that club to loose our lease on a great flying field.

Thanks
theedge54-

10-17-2007 05:02 PM

sceaduboy
Senior Heliman
Location: London, UK / Hong Kong

Problem might be solved when on the first day, force them to buddy box with another flier and probs do a flight test as someone mentioned.

Evo 50, Rappy 90, T-Rex on the bench, need rebuilding

10-17-2007 05:19 PM

Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Usually, the plankers are cooperative and nice if the heli pilot is good. But, when they notice a beginner or someone learning advanced maneuvers, that's when all rules against helis are implemented.
If it's a plankers field, you'd better have an airplane along with your heli to cooperate with them.

10-17-2007 05:37 PM

Mutt
Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Quote
someone learning advanced maneuvers, that's when all rules against helis are implemented. If it's a plankers field, you'd better have an airplane along with your heli to cooperate with them.

That is not true at all fields.

10-17-2007 08:32 PM

Onawing
Heliman
Location: Honolulu, HI

At our AMA field, the helis and the fixed-wing pilots fly together in peace. What scares me every single time I go there is the apparent need of the heli pilots to consistently do 3D 50 feet from the spectator area, where my 8 year old is playing.

I've seen crashes due to mechanical failure as well as pilot error, and 50 feet offers no protection whatsoever. Fixed wing crashes can be predicted to some degree, while a mechanical failure on a heli can launch it any direction.

So it's ironic that the noobs go way out to the other end of the field to practice, while the pros see it almost as a right of passage to fly in your face.

Too risky for me, AMA membership notwithstanding.

10-18-2007 10:41 AM

Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer