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Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > NEAT Fair Crash - Statement by Justin's Dad
 
 
a3dpilotusa
Heliman
Location: Lower Georgia

The question on whether a 5 year old should be doing demo's or flying without a buddy box around a group of people is probably is going to be pretty polarizing.

One aspect of this that could be very bad for Justin, his dad, and the hobby is that he is a "sponsored" pilot doing "a demo" or practice for such demo. AMA insurance does not cover pilots past hobby status. They are receiving product, travel, and or compensation to do this flying which makes them semi- or straight professional in all legal terms.

If this poor guy who was hit decides to sue them, the event, and the event organizers personally I think the legal system would be very hard on them. Heck maybe they will bypass the little fish and go after the sponsor of his equipment. The cost in $ that could be awarded due to this type of injury and negligence could be very high.

Those of you involved in this type of demo flying I would assume have good insurance. If not then they are playing with fire.

2.4ghz is great, but they just eliminated the "lockout" defence. If they claim "mechanical" then they can argue who did the maintenance and the building of the machine.

I can see it now. So how many times had this pilot crashed in the last year? Who was the safety pilot for a 5 year old? How many mechanical crashes have you had in the last year? Who is the mechanic? Does the pilot pre-flight the machine? Do you know these machines can be dangerous?

From a liability standpoint, this should have lawyers drooling....
09-17-2007 08:20 PM
 
 
jackheli
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver - Canada

Quote 
As long as children are properly supervised, there is no reason they should not be allowed to fly

I bet he could also drive a car. Why not? the talent and coordination is obviously there. We could parade him and it would be "cool".

Quote 
How many of heli pilots have you seen fly while drinking or after having been drinking?

If you are going to justify one wrong with another, anybody would be open to do whatever...



Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new - Albert Einstein
09-17-2007 08:20 PM
 
 
AndyH
Key Veteran
Location: San Diego, CA

I believe the guy who got hit would have a good case to make against them. It wouldn't be hard to prove willfull negligence in this case at all.

aceisback - obviously there is no common sense left in America and I have never seen anyone fly while intoxicated and at the places where I fly. They'd be kicked out for attempting it.

RC Helis can be extremely dangerous! Sounds like a lot of people out there need a wake up call.

This hobby is like Kryptonite to chicks!
09-17-2007 08:41 PM
 
 
a3dpilotusa
Heliman
Location: Lower Georgia

Also keep in mind that even though the injuries where less severe a guy got whacked at IRCHA during the demo by a popular pilot. That accident was kept pretty quite as they did not even mention the pilots name anywhere at any point to prevent backlash. In that case the pilot was obviously putting the machine in a very dangerous place and the injured guy even said he was backing up as the machine was very close. His statements are on several forums.

I hate to see it happen but I think legal action will change things quickly. The pilots and sponsors are just lucky no-one has gone down that rode yet. If a Sponsored Pilot kills someone or severely injures someone during a demo I think the legal action against the sponsors would be very harsh. If that pilot has a solid history of crashing and or flying in a careless manner as outside observers would see it, the judgement could be outrageous.

AMA I don't think will be much help when we are talking about "sponsored" pilots doing "demo's".
09-17-2007 08:48 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

While on the topic of legalities... Could there be an argument for child endangerment as well?

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-17-2007 08:58 PM
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

Quote 
Also keep in mind that even though the injuries where less severe a guy got whacked at IRCHA during the demo by a popular pilot. That accident was kept pretty quite as they did not even mention the pilots name anywhere at any point to prevent backlash. In that case the pilot was obviously putting the machine in a very dangerous place and the injured guy even said he was backing up as the machine was very close. His statements are on several forums.

Not correct, That pilot's heli hit a guy who was standing where everyone else was told not to stand and the camera man knew he was taking a risk being there. It wasn't just some unknowing spectator and no spectators were allowed where he was.
09-17-2007 09:00 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Typical American mind set to jump on the sue happy band wagon. lets figure out how to make a quick buck off an unfortunate situation.

That is whats wrong with our country, not a very talented 5 year old flying a heli.

-Derek
09-17-2007 09:03 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Nathan
Senior Heliman
Location: Elkhart, Indiana

Quote 
Not correct, That pilot's heli hit a guy who was standing where everyone else was told not to stand and the camera man knew he was taking a risk being there. It wasn't just some unknowing spectator and no spectators were allowed where he was.

Don't think that would matter. The pilot has control of flying or not flying until everyone is at a safe distance. It is his responsibility first. The Adam and Eve thing applies here.

Nathan
09-17-2007 09:08 PM
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

Quote 
Don't think that would matter. The pilot has control of flying or not flying until everyone is at a safe distance. It is his responsibility first. The Adam and Eve thing applies here.

Not really. The camera man was willing to waive the risk for commercial gain. The same way they get injured in car races or get tackled at football games. Plus he is in the hobby so he can't claim he didn't know what he was at risk for.
09-17-2007 09:14 PM
 
 
homer
Heliman
Location: Gainesville - Florida

Quote 
The camera man was willing to waive the risk for commercial gain

Then I do assume correctly with this remark there was a written waiver. If not its watch your butt here comes the lawyer.
09-17-2007 09:23 PM
 
 
hongrn
Heliman
Location: Placentia, CA

We can argue this case to death, but just look at it this way: if the injured man is severely disfigured and decides to sue, and the case goes to court, which jury is going to side with Justin's dad? At 5, children are not even capable of riding a bicycle without training wheels, let alone handle the complex task of directing a powerful helicopter. What if the heli comes straight for the kid? Will he have the critical thinking skills to evade it? Pick the age appropriate toys for your youngsters...

_____________________
Professional Heli Crasher
09-17-2007 09:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Nathan
Senior Heliman
Location: Elkhart, Indiana

Quote 
Not really. The camera man was willing to waive the risk for commercial gain. The same way they get injured in car races or get tackled at football games. Plus he is in the hobby so he can't claim he didn't know what he was at risk for.

I wonder who paid the ER bill. I do not know. Would be interesting.

Nathan
09-17-2007 09:27 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

Quote 
At 5, children are not even capable of riding a bicycle without training wheels, let alone handle the complex task of directing a powerful helicopter. What if the heli comes straight for the kid? Will he have the critical thinking skills to evade it?

Watch any videos of justin flying, i think that more the proves he is capable of maintaining a controlled flight no matter what orientation or senario.

-DEREK
09-17-2007 09:30 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

I wasn't involved in the planning so I don't know. You only had guys on golf carts and on the PA announcing it to everyone. You would need to ask the Cameraman what he did. I understand you can sue everyone for everything. We wouldn't need AMA if that wasn't the case. We wouldn't need AMA if we could make the hobby immune from accidents. But if you live in fear of how a lawyer might construe things then you better just go live in a padded room.
09-17-2007 09:31 PM
 
 
LouInSD
Veteran
Location: San Diego CA USA

Andy,

Do you really think the kid flew the heli into the crowd because he didn't understand the danger?

From the sound of it, it happened so fast that not even an adult pilot would have been able to avoid it. Kids normally have FASTER reflexes than adults anyway.

Sure, common sense would tell ya that most kids arent good enough pilots to be flying at Funflies, this kid is an exception, he has proven that he is a good pilot.

If the kid gave the wrong input, then I would say that I think we've all been guilty of that, I know I have...


Best case, there was a mechanical failure which caused an unavoidable injury.
Worst case, the kid made a mistake which caused an avoidable injury.

It could have happened to any of us, that's all I'm saying man...
09-17-2007 09:32 PM
 
 
dingaling02
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenwood, IN USA

Quote 
IMHO the Kid is not good enough and crashes way to much to a be a DEMO pilot, but his Dad is doing a good job making him into a good side line freak show

Aceisback, and Stu: you guys are idiots...Apparently you have never seen Justin fly, he is far better than most will ever be. Accidents do happen, I mean, look at the hobby. His age had NOTHING to do this accident. No one but Justin really knows what happened. He is very young, but is an AMAZING pilot. I can't believe someone would have the balls to call this kid a freak show...I think you guys are jealous because your kids aren't good at anything, you don't need to be upset.
If this was a 75-80 year old person, what would you two fools say about that...Those old geezers don't deserve to be flying...
Come on, think about what you say before you say it..
that kid is amazing, and nothing less, so forget his age, and look at his skills..Everyone crashes, thats what this hobby is, always preventing a crash...He made one mistake, and surely shouldn't be black flagged for it..What about the 2 crashes at IRCHA, both by middle aged people; and I watched Justin fly quite a few times, NO CRASHES....Just because a 5 year old kid makes us look bad, doesn't mean we need to bash him..

Trust me..With how well Justin can fly, its obvious he is FAR more intelligent than the average 5 year old....I think its great that everyone thought he was awesome, and a child prodigy, up UNTIL this point, and one thing..NOW he shouldn't be flying a heli, becuause his critical thinking skills aren't good enough!!!!LOL>>>>>



ROCK ON JUSTIN, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!

Sorry that this happend, and my best wishes go out to the injured family..

Thanks for the updates on the gentlemans health..

break it now and get it over with!
09-17-2007 09:36 PM
 
 
sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

My guess is that as far as the legalities are concerned, a child of five will have no liability, but his guardian will and the organizers of the event who permitted this will. Even if the father signed a document holding the event organizers harmless, they may still be held liable since "....they should have known...." that this could pose a great danger to the spectators. BTW, I believe even if the kid was 17 and signed an "indemnification" contract with the organizers, that contract would not be valid since the kid is under 18.

People who attend events have "expectations" of a certain level of safety, e.g., barriers, fences, safety nets, etc. Event organizers may be under a legal obligation to create as safe an environment as possible for the spectators. A key question may be, "were the spectators apprised of the potential danger of having a child fly a model helicopter?"

This is an unfortunate accident. While I personally think it is great that a child of five can fly like he does (I wish I could fly as well as he does ), in my mind, the potential liability easily exceeds the joy and amusement of such an event.
09-17-2007 09:40 PM
 
 
dingaling02
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenwood, IN USA

I don't think this post was created to decide whos fault it is..Benny was letting everyone know what happend, I am assuming, so rumors didn't start flying...
Lets all wish the best for the WU family, and hope that everything turns out okay for the CHI and the WU family..

corey P

break it now and get it over with!
09-17-2007 09:50 PM
 
 
homer
Heliman
Location: Gainesville - Florida

Quote 
.I think its great that everyone thought he was awesome, and a child prodigy, up UNTIL this point, and one thing..NOW he shouldn't be flying a heli, becuause his critical thinking skills aren't good enough!!!!LOL>>>>>

Not everyone. I said from the begining he shouldn't be flying heli's alone.
09-17-2007 09:51 PM
 
 
d-bledsoe
Veteran
Location: Kirkland WA

i dont think i have ever seen justin fly a heli alone, every time i have seen him fly his father was right by his side doing a great job as a spotter.

Now if you mean he should be hooked up to a buddy box constantly do you really think that would have made a damn bit of difference in this case? no. but then i guess who would you blame? justin for flying or his father for not being able to recover the heli in the 1-2 seconds the whole even took place during?

-derek
09-17-2007 09:53 PM
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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > NEAT Fair Crash - Statement by Justin's Dad
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