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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > How the community deals with safety issues.

electriciancarl
Veteran
Location: Mesa, Az.

Quote
If someone is flying to close to me, it is my business.

Then step back to a distance you think is safe. Why are you standing that close in the first place?

Why should the pilot change what he's doing to satisfy your fear?

Quote
because you are too stupid to know any better

Then in the context of this debate that statement says anyone who flies close is stupid, like Alan, Danny, Jason, Curtis, ect. And who are you to judge? Do you guys have even a fraction of the skills these pilots have on which to base your idea of safe? Do you have the years of experience the event staff has? You sit back and armchair quarterback the professionals after the fact. Who are you to tell these people and everybody else to push it out? If your scared, back up. The rest of us will be just fine. Now quit sniveling.

My surprise at how many people are for sale is only rivaled by my shock at how little they cost

08-13-2007 03:24 PM

electriciancarl
Veteran
Location: Mesa, Az.

Ron, stop pming me. And don't be so sensative. Your really getting worked up here.

My surprise at how many people are for sale is only rivaled by my shock at how little they cost

08-13-2007 03:33 PM

whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

So Carl, If I have this right, you think it is ok for someone to fly withing a few feet of the pilots stations?
If that is the case, then you are an idiot and there is no sence in arguing with you. It does not matter if the pilots are "pro" or not.
Too close is too close. I'd like to see a dead man line at events. Make it how ever far out from the pilot stations those in charge agree on, and if you cross that line you are gone. Plain and simple.

Mike

08-13-2007 04:30 PM

electriciancarl
Veteran
Location: Mesa, Az.

Quote
So Carl, If I have this right, you think it is ok for someone to fly withing a few feet of the pilots stations?

Yes I do. And the pilots think it's ok, and the event staff thinks it's ok, and the ama field people think it's ok. So all of us are idiots? You are smarter than everyone at the event?

It is clear this debate is beyond you.

My surprise at how many people are for sale is only rivaled by my shock at how little they cost

08-13-2007 04:39 PM

RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

Quote
Ron, stop pming me. And don't be so sensative. Your really getting worked up here.

You are the one calling people names. Your first post called anyone with an issue "a bunch of cowards". You call people cowards, candy-assed wimps...And tell them to butch up. You directed those comments directly at me. Then you cry about me calling you on it? Grow up, Sheesh

Again what have you done to earn your bravado...Hover a Toy?

Here is a hint...Don't act like billy badass and run around insulting people and they will not call you on it. If you do...expect to be told to put up or shut up.

You have a point about if you don't like something to stay away...But two professional pilots hitting two people at one event in less than a week tells me that the setup could have been better. You instead choose to insult and attack anyone that does see your view as gospel.

I'm done...I know what type of person you are now. Big talk and full of false bravado.

08-13-2007 04:41 PM

whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

So all of us are idiots?

YES, given the conditions as described there is no doubt in my mind.
You are an idiot.

Mike

08-13-2007 04:50 PM

electriciancarl
Veteran
Location: Mesa, Az.

Quote
Usually by overreacting like a bunch of cowards

Quote
This country is full of candy-ass wimps who think they know what's best for everybody else.

Looks like I hit the nail right on the head.

My surprise at how many people are for sale is only rivaled by my shock at how little they cost

08-13-2007 04:56 PM

electriciancarl
Veteran
Location: Mesa, Az.

My point is made. Cheers all. Good-day.

My surprise at how many people are for sale is only rivaled by my shock at how little they cost

08-13-2007 04:58 PM

whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

"It is clear this debate is beyond you."

Funny you would use the word debate. The way you put it, there is no debate. While the rest of us "debate" the issue you sit with your arms folded saying it is safe and that is all there is to it. You bring a smile to my face only because you remind me so much of a 5 yr old kid.

Mike

08-13-2007 05:16 PM

racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Add me to the whiny candy-ass coward list then.

DrScoles is not asking for an act of congress to pass some new emergency safety measure. The top pilots need to set the example.

When there's a 30 MPH wind blowing in your face and you have a bunch of photographers to your right and left, push your routine out a bit or ask them to move back.

The trend over the last few years has been to go lower and lower... I think we've hit the bottom. Bring it up a few inches and give yourself a little room for error.

Two guys getting hit is unacceptable whatever the reason.

andy-

08-13-2007 05:46 PM

HOMEPAGE

Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

That was a professional pilot flying the heli. Watching the video closely, flying too close leaves no room for error. The wind was blowing toward the pilot and a millisecond of error (pilot or wind, does not matter) can turn into disaster.

Back on the table - let's get the Safety Issue on track!

08-13-2007 06:12 PM

A. Bundy
Elite Veteran
Location: Aurora,IL. 30W/SW of Chicago

Carl,you are a moron....And I would bet whirlyspud would fly you into the ground.

08-13-2007 06:58 PM

Bugilt
Heliman
Location: Austin, Texas

I see no facts to debate with. Seems like everyone gets into a pissing contest to deal with the issue.

What happen?

How could you make it safer? Reasonably...

What else would this change cause?

How do you think we could improve this procedure?

08-13-2007 07:11 PM

HOMEPAGE

whirlyspud
Veteran
Location: USA

Maybe this will help.....And I am asking for opinions here.

1. Do you feel safe at the average fun fly?
2. Do you think that everything is being done within reason to keep everyone safe?
3. Do you think there should be a set minimum distance between the flying aircraft and the pilots stations?
4. If yes to #3, what should that distance be?
5. Have you ever had someone fly too close to you at an event.
6. List anything else you think should be taken into consideration.
7. Do you consider yourself a pro.

Here are my answers.
1. No
2. Not really
3. YES
4. 20-25 ft minimum
5. Twice, both times by "pros"
6. have to ponder it a bit
7. No, but I have been flying helicopters since before many of the current crop of pro's were in diapers.

Mike

08-13-2007 11:15 PM

RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

1. Do you feel safe at the average fun fly?

In the pits yes, on the flight line, depends on who is flying....There are some people that when they fly I stand under something strong.

2. Do you think that everything is being done within reason to keep everyone safe?

Kinda a loaded question. This is where definitions of "within reason" and "safe" come into play. I think that with two pros hitting two people in less than a week...At THIS event it seems it could have been done better. Evidenced by the fact they moved people back after the accidents.

3. Do you think there should be a set minimum distance between the flying aircraft and the pilots stations?

I don't personally have an issue if a guy kills himself...I'd rather not have it happen, but they are adults....I think there should be a min distance from the flight line and "others."

4. If yes to #3, what should that distance be?

It would depend on skill level of the pilot.

5. Have you ever had someone fly too close to you at an event.

Yes

6. List anything else you think should be taken into consideration.

I got nothing.

7. Do you consider yourself a pro.

No.

08-14-2007 04:15 AM

Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Quote
4. If yes to #3, what should that distance be? It would depend on skill level of the pilot.

You had better take a closer look at the video posted here of a pro that lost control of the heli. He himself felt awkward flying too close when he moved from his stance, but the pressure he put on himself to show his ability went out of control when a gust of wind threw him off guard.
No one can react because they were just TOO CLOSE.
If the heli was of some distance from the pilot, he has a chance to divert the heli from possible dangers around him.

08-14-2007 04:31 AM

MJWS
Key Veteran
Location: Airdrie, AB - Canada

Two things I think are being overlooked in this thread.

1. The 'pro' pilot is responsible for the heli. Some of them are much more comfortable with a 90 up close then most pilots. Most also have a few thousand more hours on the sticks then average joe condemnation. Demos are flown in front of the pilot and the entire pilot and flightline are moved forward. This isn't idiots on a line with 20 unaware pilots. It is an expert with skill, knowledge and understanding of the risk involved. Dino pushed it a fraction too hard and weather conditions punished him. Personally, I see no reason whatsoever to fly a hurricane a few inches from your nose.

I don't tell Michael Schumacher how to drive. Move them out from the crowd and let them fly. (That is what they did.)

2. MikeV is a journalist. He CHOSE to take a risk for profit. He isn't the first photographer to be injured. He won't be the last. This is what they do to capture the very best images. For some it is their edge, it is what gets them paid and sets them apart from the rest in their field. It is no different in any other sport. I think they should have the freedom to do their jobs as they choose. They want to come out in a helmet and body armor... their choice, their risk assessment.

For those of you not clever enough to read Dr. Scoles history. He is FAR from an alarmist. The point is the PROS could push it out a few feet without any negative impact on the experience. They set the trends, they can push just as hard and still set a better safety example.

Two bits. Flame on.

Mike

08-14-2007 05:02 AM

RonHill
Veteran
Location: ..

Quote
You had better take a closer look at the video posted here of a pro that lost control of the heli

Not really...You answer your own question with your next sentance IMO

"He himself felt awkward flying too close "

That says it all IMO. Then he should have made a change before he flew. In skydiving I have what is called a PRO rating. It allows me to be one of those guys that jump into stadiums, do high profile demos...ect. I have canceled many demos since the conditions were not right, or I didn't like the setup. Some of these demos paid really well, but I didn't do them anyway. One demo I was in the Army and had to tell a Full Bird that my team was not going to jump...He was not happy, but thatswhat had to happen. If there was a dangerous situation; I fixed it, or didn't go.

Pros are often pressured to do things to "put on the show." Now thats not to say I have not jumped in questionable conditions...I have, just at local DZ's far removed from spectators, not at high profile events where others were at risk.

So, two questions:
1. If the pilot and heli had been 20 feet further out....Would his flight have been less cool, or required less skill?

2. If the PILOT thinks things are two close, who are we to disagree with him?

My point is that it seems he would have liked to have been further out...Except WE pressured them to do it close.

Let me be the first to say that I am as impressed as a funnel at 10 feet as I am at 2. And as impressed when it is 30 feet away as in my face.

As for the media and being close....Yes, they accept a higher risk. But Telephoto lenses allow people to get pics from safe areas...Think those closeups of lions were done from 5 feet away?

Was the other guy hit last week media?

More info on the PRO rating http://www.uspa.org/licenses/demo.htm

08-14-2007 02:07 PM

bigdad390
Veteran
Location: e. liverpool, ohio

Flying RC helis is not a safe hobby. From time to time accidents will happen and people will get hurt. It would be foolish to say that all accidents are preventable. There will always be injuries while cleaning gutters, broken bones while racing Motocross, hooks in someones back while fishing and drownings from swimming. There are steps to take to minimize injuries, but to some that would be like imposing a speed limit on NASCAR.

08-14-2007 03:16 PM

AndyH
Key Veteran
Location: San Diego, CA

Quote
When there's a 30 MPH wind blowing in your face and you have a bunch of photographers to your right and left, push your routine out a bit or ask them to move back.

IMHO - I've been to several fun fly's with lots of "pro's" and they all push it really hard at FF's low in their face - and a lot of times flying into other peoples space (had this happen tons of times) and this ruins the fun of FF's for me and others I know. I don't feel safe at FF's anymore.

Another aspect often overlooked is the reliability of these heli's! These things have been design with a good factor of safety on everything, but what about the reliability? If a manafacuterer out there could provide me with a failure rate of a ball link or better yet the whole heli - I'd feel better about being so close in, but the fact is even with the best pilot behind the sticks - stuff fails, radios lock-out and bad things can happen at any time! These things are inherently dangerous and as such they need to be treated with respect!

I hope this never happens but one of these day's a "pro" is gonna get someone severely hurt or killed, and when that happens he will be RESPONSIBLE (jail?)!! These young hot-shots out there forget about the real world consequences sometimes.

Anyway - like I said just my opinion - but safety is always everyones business!

This hobby is like Kryptonite to chicks!

08-14-2007 03:27 PM

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