RunRyder - Any "good" reason for using Turbine oil

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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Any "good" reason for using Turbine oil

Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

I have been following the turbine scene for some time (and built a Phoenix 30.3) and can't really see the justification for using Turbine oil (either type II or Type III) in these engines. The only valid reason I can think of is cokeing of the rear bearing due to heat soak back after shutdown. As the bearing life is rather short anyway by the time it was an issue it would need a new bearing anyway. I would think that a "air-cooled" two stroke oil would be a better choice both in cost and toxicity.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

02-07-2003 Over year old.

Phil Cole
Veteran
Location: Redwood City CA

The main reason is because the manufacturers say so. They probably so say since that's all they've tested. It does do the job, and it's easy to know that you have the right oil.

I've seen at least one recommend two-stroke oil. It does need to be synthetic oil of a particular type, and I'd suspect that there are some two-stroke oils that won't do the job. The good stuff is probably in the $5/quart region, not a whole lot cheaper than Aeroshell 500.

I'm still in the warranty period with mine, so I stick with what they say to use. If you are using a homebuild engine, you can use whatever oil you want.

02-07-2003 Over year old.

Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

If you have spent $4500 on a turbine

Why on earth would you scrimp on the oil you put in it.

As for toxicity, I have made a conscious effort to stop drinking the stuff and I seem to be ok now

Peter Wales

02-07-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

DStJohn
Senior Heliman
Location: Ft. Collins, CO

OK Now?? That's up for debate

I agree with Peter, If you can't afford the $5 a quart then don't bother! Besides go out to the airport and see the heli mechanics with their arms in the stuff, and their almost as normal as Peter

Dan St.John
East Coast Scale Helicopters Vario Field Rep

02-08-2003 Over year old.

Dave Hollins
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Totally agree with Peter.
When you spend your hard earned cash on a production turbine you must be crazy not to follow the manufactures recommendations. I've been flying two Jetcat turbines in a EC135 and a Hughes500 and they have run flawlessly for months using Aeroshell 500.
I wish I lived in the USA, people complain about $5 a quart!!!! it's $22 a quart in the UK!!!!!!

02-08-2003 Over year old.

Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

Well I guess these are all "good" reasons but I'll bet you would see no problem with a good two stroke oil. The
advantage would be :
Better lubrication
Better corrosion protection
Better smelling
Non toxic
Cheaper.

And while we are at it why Aero shell 500? Not the best Turbine oil out there. ETO 25 or 2380 or even Turbo II have more impressive specification and lower ash content.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

02-08-2003 Over year old.

Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

As it happens I use Exxon 2380, because the Jetcat man sold it to me and said use this. Now if Bob Wilcox thinks there is a better oil around I am sure he will tell me, until then, I dont want to mess with things I dont understand. It works perfectly well and my engines have all run flawlessly, why should I change it for some thing which MAY wreck my $4500 engine and save me $2.

If you spent $100k on a Ferrari and the manual said use Mobil 1, would you go into the local lube shop and tell them that their generic junk is fine and to fill your toy up with it?

You are willing to bet I would see no problem with a good 2 stroke oil. Would you be willing to bet $6000 to replace my engine and helicopter if you were wrong?

Peter Wales

02-08-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

Hey Dave!

Hows the flying in sunny England? Have you some pictures of your 500, I am thinking about treating myself to one of those to use up that pod and boom turbine I have. Does the Vario exhaust give any forward thrust?

Peter Wales

02-08-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Dave Hollins
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Hi Peter
The weather over here is wet but not to cold (sorry, really cold compared to where you are!!).
I've E-mailed you some pics of the Hughes, let me know if you haven't got them and I'll try again.
With the exhaust coming out of the sides there is hardly any forward thrust.
I've slowed the turbine down from 94K to 88K. Reasons why? I played with the rpm between 82K-94K and it's surprising what a differance it makes with noise levels and fuel consumption. The flight characteristics don't appear to change that much apart from slightly less thrust. 88K gives about 1200 head speed, about 10min flying time and reduced noise levels (compared to 94K).
The Hughes has now been stripped ready for painting - not sure on the paint sceme!! you know me - not scale.

02-09-2003 Over year old.

Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

Just as a follow up to the original question

I have bought an SPS turbine system and the manufacturer does recommend a good 2 stroke oil over turbine oil. Now I will be using two types of oil in my turbines. Maybe one day I will switch to one for all the different types, but I dont know which one it will be yet.

Peter Wales

02-26-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

Peter:

By "good" they mean an "air cooled" two stroke oil not a "W2C" oil. and since the "gas generator" on both youre engines are the same, back to the original qustion.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

02-26-2003 Over year old.

Peter Wales
Key Veteran
Location: Orlando Fl

Doug

Back to the original answer. If the manufacturer says use oil X, then I'll use oil X.
Why? Cos I dont know any better and am only prepared to use what the manufacturer tells me to use.
At this stage, I am not prepared to experiment on a model which may stand me in at $10k+
As I learn more about it, I may change my mind, but right now, I have enough to worry about without risking a model to save a couple of bucks.

Peter Wales

02-26-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

The reason for the original question was because Turbine oils are not that great. There main claim to fame is high thermal stability. (which means they can operate at high temperatures without gumming or breaking down and low temperatures without turning to a solid). They aren't that great a lubricant and with roller and ball bearings lubrication is not the problem, keeping the bearings cool is the issue (and with fuel/oil spray not a problem). As the rear bearing life in the model turbines is not all that great and with normal service intervals the small amount of cokeing that occurs (from soak back after shutdown) is removed at bearing service, the only advantage of turbine oil is gone. The two stroke oils will provide superior corrosion resistance and more than adequate lubrication.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous

02-26-2003 Over year old.

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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Any "good" reason for using Turbine oil

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