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Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower

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e-Electric Conversions > E-Vibe -- Now e-Avant with Dualsky Motor
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Richard,
Those running the non-'H' 1915/1.5Y in 90-size helis say they get rather warm; enough to warrant a wait between flights to let it cool a bit. The 'H' version motors that are out so far are cutting the temps quite a bit. No 1915H/1.5Y yet, though.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-04-2007 03:56 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Well, after much deliberation, calculation, and consideration, I've decided to try the Dualsky 6350CA-12T on 18S A123 at 8.0:1. It looks pretty good on paper.

I haven't found any reports of it being used in a heli, so I'm venturing into uncharted waters.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-05-2007 05:02 PM
 
 
andres.c
Key Veteran
Location: Florida , Dade County 33173

john

do you have a link for that Dualsky 6350CA-12T motor ?
09-06-2007 12:00 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Andres,
Here you go: http://www.2dogrc.com/ecommerce/os/...ize-p-2036.html

The constants I found are:
kV 310
Io 1.31 A
Rm 0.029 Ohm

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-06-2007 02:31 AM
 
 
pkelvin
Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hi John,

It's nice to know that there are other fiddling around with the e-Vibe. I am currently working on one too and here are my planned setup and it should obtain HS of around 1850rpm.

Power Setup
1. Actro 32-4 (425kv) w/ 9T pinion giving 9.7:1.
2. Flight Power 12S 5000mAh or Hyperion 12S 4350mAh.
3. PowerJazz 63 ESC.

Light Weight Setup
1. Tango 45-06 (640kv) w/ 8T pinion giving 8:1.
2. Flight Power 10S 3700mAh or Thunder Power 10S 4000mAh.
3. Jazz 55 ESC.

I am still deciding on which set up to go for. Any comments?

Cheers,
Kelvin

Founder - Compass Knight Club HK
09-06-2007 06:40 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Kelvin,
I'm not a fan of 9-tooth pinions and I would think you are just asking for trouble with an 8-tooth. Some guys have had some luck putting power through a 9-tooth, but it's on the edge for sure.

It is possible to get a larger main gear into the Vibe. Someone was able to get a 100-tooth Ergo(?) gear in there. I would see what you can do that way before going down to a 9- or 8-tooth pinion. But that's just me.

I don't know that it can be done, but the Synergy main gear is huge at 124 teeth. That would certainly open up more gear ratio options.

Isn't the Tango a bit small for 90-size helis?

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-06-2007 02:39 PM
 
 
epc2
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami , Fl./S.Dgo.

John,

KSJ makes a 100t Main gear that fits the Vibe/Vigor.

epc2.

Team My Wallet.
09-06-2007 02:49 PM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Do you have a part number handy?

Thanks,
John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-06-2007 02:57 PM
 
 
pkelvin
Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Jkos,

Thanks for the chin up. I myself do worry about the 9T pinion too, just that i don't know if there are any other main gear that would fit. I would definitly give the Ergo 100T main gear a look. As for the Tango 45-06, just because I have one laying around, that's why I wanna see if that will work, since it is a much lighter setup than the Actro w/12S.

epc2,

Can you please kindly let us know the parts number for the KSJ 100T main gear?

Cheers guys.

Founder - Compass Knight Club HK
09-07-2007 10:31 AM
 
 
invrtd
Veteran
Location: Central Florida

Can someone post what the wattage of each motor is and what whattage is needed for good 3d. I am looking at a LRK motor out of Germany. Just don't know which one to go with. They are high quality motors too but look to be a little heavier. I know with 3D planes they say 150 whatts per pound is good but don't know if that would apply for heli's.
09-08-2007 02:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

invrtd,
You probably want to work out a system that can do 300 W/lb peaks for a decent 3D heli. It definitely takes more than a plane for 3D.

An example of a proven combo for this is an Actro 32-3 on 10S Lipo. It would easliy hit 320 W/lb in my e-Avant.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-13-2007 05:00 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

I received the Dualsky 6350CA-12T a couple days ago. It looks really nice. It is large in diameter but not all that tall with lots of open area on each end for better cooling. It weighs in at 17 oz. It has an extra long 8 mm shaft running all the way through the motor supported by three hefty bearings. It also has nice 3.5 mm bullet plugs factory soldered on the motor and nice female bullet connectors to mate with them.

After tearing out the nitro gear and getting a better look at how the 6350 can fit in, here's what I've decided...

1. Use a 12T, 8 mm bore pinion which will be a 12T, 6 mm pinion from SDP that I already have bored out to 8 mm.
2. Replace pinion bearing in stock Vibe pinion/start shaft bearing block with a 19 x 8 bearing which the motor shaft will pass through. I ordered the bearing from Boca Bearing tonight.
3. The motor will mount to the stock clutch bell bearing block (with bearing removed).

Based on the size of the bearings in the motor, I feel confident that no extra support at the bottom of the pinion gear is necessary. The pinion gear will be setting right down on the motor bearing and secured on a factory ground flat on the motor shaft.

The PowerJazz will fit upright between the frames (without the fan) just in front of the rear frame brace.

The battery packs will easily fit between the frames and the canopy as shotgun style packs with one on each side.

I think this is going to turn out just fine mechanically. Overall results will be up to the motor living up to its predicted performance.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-13-2007 05:10 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Just a quick update...

I have the motor mounting worked out using the original clutch bell bearing block/plate. I received the 19x8 bearing from Boca to support the motor shaft above the pinion. It turns out that is also the size of the bearings in the 6350CA-12T motor. So the shaft will be supported by a total of four 19x8 bearings. That should do quite fine.

I haven't had any luck meeting up with they guy who is going to bore out the pinion gear. Sat in front of his shop waiting for him from 6-7 Saturday morning per our agreement made Friday afternoon. Oh well, I'll try early some morning this week.

I may configure the A123 cells as three 6S packs. I noticed a way I can mount them even higher on the frames. If it works out, the CG of this heli would be much higher then it was as a nitro. Maybe even too high for perfect axial rolls about the tail boom. We'll see.

Later,
John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-24-2007 03:38 AM
 
 
invrtd
Veteran
Location: Central Florida

What kind of flight times are you expecting with the A123's?
09-24-2007 12:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TomC
Veteran
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia

John,

Very nice and interesting thread. As CY already has proven, the E-Vib makes a great E-conversion. Because of the F3C rule of max 10s, I think he used 10s 5000 lipos (Evo or TP?) and I think an actro 32-3 motor (but I could be wrong).

I'm currently in the process of converting my 2 of my 10s Ion-x's to 15s (lipos, not A123's).

I'm almost finished the first one, just waiting for Steve Neu to send me the motor. This will be a 2 staged 20:1 powered by a 780kv Neu 1521/2Y motor and using a PowerJazz esc.

My second one will be a single staged 10:1 (100t main/10t pinion) powered by a 415kv Actro 32-4 motor, and PJ esc. Personally, this is what I would use if I were going to electrify a Vibe. Also, I would not be considering A123's since I realy do want the best power/weight ratio and good duration, but that's just me.

I will be targetting a gov'd hs of ~1950 with 690 blades and in both cases I will be using 3x5s1p Evo25 3700 packs (in series for 15s and a total battery weight of 1.5kg). I estimate my runtimes (w/med 3D) should be 7-8 min.

Good luck with your conversion John and I look forward to hearing how it all goes.

Best cheers,

Tom C

CX2 2s
Logo10- 3D 5s
Trex600 10s
2x Ion-x, 1x15s DS, 1x15s SS
09-26-2007 07:12 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> What kind of flight times are you expecting with the A123's?

I'm looking for 6 mins after I go flybarless. With the flybar, about 5 mins.

> As CY ... I think he used 10s 5000 lipos (Evo or TP?) and I think
> an actro 32-3 motor (but I could be wrong).

It was TP, a Nue motor, a custom made main gear, and several other custom parts.

> Also, I would not be considering A123's since I really do want the
> best power/weight ratio and good duration, but that's just me.

Before removing all the nitro associated pieces of the Vibe, it weighed 10 lbs 8 oz ready-to-fly, no fuel. My current estimate for flying weight with the 18S A123 setup is 10 lbs 14 oz and that's with no further weight reduction effort. So that is the weight of the nitro Vibe with say 5 oz of fuel in it. I will easily be making more power than a nitro, so power/weight will not be an issue at all. Yes, flight time will be lower than a LiPo setup, but I'm done with LiPos.

If I follow some weight saving measures similar to Scott Gray, I can drop probably 8 oz from the weight. I would be happy to get the weight down to the empty nitro weight.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
09-26-2007 02:23 PM
 
 
invrtd
Veteran
Location: Central Florida

You would rather go 18S than 10S2P 4600mah with the A123's. This is the route I am looking at. Or even 12S2P. I know the 18S should be stronger and draw less amps so It might be a route I go too. I have a 60 sized nitro I am looking at converting to E-heli. Plan on running 680-690 blades. I love the price of A123's on ebay in the dewalt packs, and I can fast charge them!. What else is there to love about them!
09-27-2007 12:21 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Ravenhyper50
Senior Heliman
Location: Ottawa

hmmmm..18s that could be two 9s packs in series....that can be fast charged as 9s2p with 3 12v deep cycles batts hook in series with about 15-25ft of 18 gauge power cord to control amp draw... with a watt meter in line you can tell how much is going in the pack and when its done.
10-15 min charges using this method...A123..yep cant beat that...field charging a 18s in 10-15min with no AC!


......just some stuff I have been reading about 1/3&1/4 scale plane guys are using this method

What do you guys think?

MSH Protos 500, SWIFT 550 Carbon, Swift 620SE, DX-7, JR servos
10-29-2007 01:29 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> that can be fast charged as 9s2p with 3 12v deep cycles batts hook
> in series

Or 6S3P from two 12 V deep cycles. Maybe I'll try that someday, but right now I only have one deep cycle battery.

I think 3S6P would probably kill one deep cycle battery quickly given you would be looking for about 60 A from it.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
10-29-2007 04:33 AM
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

I'm changing to a Avant EFX for the conversion. I'm just more comfortable with the Avant and like some of its features better than the Vibe. The Avant also gives me more gearing options than the Vibe with the larger available main gears.

I'll take pictures of the Vibe with the motor held in place. I have no doubt the conversion would work just fine on the Vibe.

14 Nov: A machine shop is boring the pinion and making a motor mount for the Avant for me right now.

16 Nov: Motor mount plate and pinion are ready for me to pick up. $135.12. Ouch.

16 Nov: Picked up the mounting plate. Looks great. Maybe not a $135 great, but great.

28 Nov: Ordered the longer bolts I will need for spacing out the frame stiffener sideplates by 4.3 mm on each side. I also need to gen up fourteen 4.3 mm spacers.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10
11-07-2007 02:20 AM
 
 
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e-Electric Conversions > E-Vibe -- Now e-Avant with Dualsky Motor
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