RunRyder - Barrier Netting to Stop a Heli?

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Barrier Netting to Stop a Heli?

atmt37
Heliman
Location: Dorset. UK.

Link works fine for me??

[url=http://www.3dx.eu.com/forums/showthread.php?p=256]

06-10-2007 Over year old.

helimodels
Senior Heliman
Location: Dublin, Ireland

sorry about that I'm semi-illiterate when it comes to that sort of thing

here is Jeff Barringer's comment on the 3dx forum and my reply:

me
Its ability to stop a 90 sized thrasher should be demonstrated.
A call to Jeff Barringer: Jeff please find someone to donate a worn out 60 heli a fly it into that net.
Post the video here? Love to see it!
Jeff B
The netting at 3D Masters is approved and indeed loaned to us by the British Model Flying Association (BMFA) Each year senior officials from that organisation visit 3D Masters and each year they are impressed and satisfied by our safety record and precautions. Sorry for the delay in responding but as you may imagine I am currently extremely busy with the work involved in 3D Masters.
me
Hi Jeff
well at least that's something, one would expect BMFA to only approve something like that because of prior testing, with a satisfactory result of course.

So what about evidence of suitability that is test results, preferably on video?

Not that I'm speaking as a professional Engineer or anything, but it does look flimsy in relation to the possible projectile it is designed to stop.

I have been to the 3D Masters and have seen first hand just how close people "press their noses" to get a better view, and to poke their camera lenses through the net for a clear shot.

IMO something is wrong, even if the net will stop a 90 heli doing 90mph, that wont help much if the designated clearance between net and spactators is not observed.

06-11-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

cmulder
Heliman
Location: cork city , ireland

slowing down speed

I could be wrong but is it not better that a heli is slowed down by a net that allouws flexing and puts less (g) forces on the heli then stoping it dead at once wich can couse parts to break off and fly trough the net injuring people.

While a net might not surfive the impact it does what its suposed to do and protect the ones behind it with the advantage of minimal damage to the model.

Ofcource this also releis on a distance between the net and the people behind it.

06-22-2007 Over year old.

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

to hell with the heli, I'd rather have a chain link fence that doesn't give and destroys the heli, as opposed to a heli that turns a person into sushi....

06-23-2007 Over year old.

cmulder
Heliman
Location: cork city , ireland

the whole point

If you stop a heli dead at once parts like the rotor blades will brak off and then can couse damage.

Intersting its the same wrong way of thinking that some think that suw and "big" cars are saver then smaller compact cars.
Fact is that compact cars have a crumbeling zone that allouws you to slow down in a collision without breaking your neck or other parts wich can haoppen in a "strong" car doest abzorbs less energy itself and as a result passes on those forces on the people inside.

Just a example; bang your head against a wall (solid concrete will do) and then put a pillow between you and the wall and do it again.
Both times your head will be stoped but with less to no damage using a pillow.

Back to our example of a savety net; yes you probbaly have to replace it once you fly a helicopter or plane into it.
That will take you probbaly 30 to 45 min to do and the net probbaly cost you 30 40 dollar.

But the people behind it are save and have not been hit by small parts.

06-23-2007 Over year old.

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

but you have to remember, the excessive amount of flex makes it unsafe for those that are standing too close to the net....

06-23-2007 Over year old.

Trooper Sam
Veteran
Location: Perris, California - USA

Quote
At the time I wish ours was that high. At our last fun fly in San Diego one of the 'pros' was doing an aileron tic-toc in the middle of the field when his heli went out of control and tocced over the safety fence and hit upside down right in front of the announcer's booth and just inches from a club members (the announcer) little boy!

I was there...that T-Rex 600 went right over my head! The CD's son was the boy in question, and he surprisingly alert. He saw the heli coming, and ducked under the table. He got smacked in the back with a blade, but the rotors had lost a large part of their energy by that point, and there was no significant injury.

I'm not sure a net would have stopped that, as it came over in a pretty high arc.

Trooper Sam

We do not do this to save money, we save money to do this-TheRickster

06-23-2007 Over year old.

cmulder
Heliman
Location: cork city , ireland

savety line

its true that becouse of the flex people who ignore the savety line endanger themselfs but its imposible to compansate for people not folowing the rules.

"Common since" it the biggest savety "net" you have but when that goes fences ect will not make mutch diference.

06-23-2007 Over year old.

martinic
Veteran
Location: NB, Canada

Not impossible, but perhaps impractical to be foolproof. I still think (hope) that such netting would provide a reasonable measure of safety against a heli. Even if people were close to the net, they still may have time to back out of harms way. If nothing else, much of the energy may be absorbed. For the small price (perhaps less than $500), it would seem to be quite practical - that's the basis of my interest.

It's not so much about not following rules as much as it is managing risk. Even the best pilots are susceptable to the occasional failure that may or may not have been preventable.

07-02-2007 Over year old.

cmulder
Heliman
Location: cork city , ireland

small parts

the bigest issue is that if you use a fence that does not flex small parts break off and get trough cousing injuries.

WHen it comes to people being close to the fence then you can also go for a combination solution a metal fence and about 2 meter in front of it a net keep the fence as permanent and the net when having competitions and fly ins ect.

07-15-2007 04:23 AM

helimodels
Senior Heliman
Location: Dublin, Ireland

I would absolutely LOVE to see a video of a heli going into the fence...

07-15-2007 10:54 PM

HOMEPAGE

Olli-Pekka Mahrberg
Senior Heliman
Location: Finland, Joensuu

Mee too. I'm sure that that net'll stop a 90 size heli, and if it stops the heli of hitting people it's quite unnecessary to think about off breaking parts because in any case they will do much less damage than a heli with fast spinning blades. It's quite unusual that the blades break off, bounce off the net and fly to it's another side and hit someone. And probably there will not be any small parts flying through the net, or I don't know, the easiest way to find out is testing.
Please someone donate a heli to test the net!

-op-
Finland

07-22-2007 04:44 PM

HOMEPAGE

Custom
Heliman
Location: Arizona

Nets may be good on big events were crowd control could be a problem.

But lets face it...martinic wants it to stop him from almost hitting kids that are watching him at his flying field..

Quote
The reason I ask is because I had my heli crash just behind the snow fencing. Small children were only 20-30' back.

I think we have to stop unqualified pilots that don't know the angle of attack there helicopters are in to be safe.
Lets face it now were letting Kids like Justin Chi flying at the same distance and we now know what happens there... or the possibility of it happening is greater and he flys (when he can keep it in the air) better than most adults.

Maturity rather than Netting is needed at our flying sites, although for big events Netting may be a option.

09-18-2007 07:20 PM

BigguyOz
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Australia

Airwolf - it is a simple fact of life that people won't prevent something being banned if it doesn't affect them personally. So the great majority of people wouldn't give a rat's if the R/C hobby was banned after some emotive accident (for example, a couple of kids getting hit in the face by a heli). So simple precautions like a safety net at an event attended by the public don't seem too over the top to me.

But try and get cars banned due to the road toll, and stand back for the roar of protest from the masses....

BTW, the simpledt way to cut the road toll is to fit every steering wheel with a 6 inch spike in the middle. Watch how carefully people would drive then!

Tony Stott
Scenefromabove.com.au
Trex 450,AP2000i,Askman
8m mast
hot air balloon
kite

09-20-2007 04:34 AM

HOMEPAGE

willie evans
Veteran
Location: Alberta, Canada

Quote
BTW, the simpledt way to cut the road toll is to fit every steering wheel with a 6 inch spike in the middle. Watch how carefully people would drive then!

LOL

funny, BUT OH SO TRUE !

09-21-2007 04:26 AM

martinic
Veteran
Location: NB, Canada

Things are getting somewhat off topic in this thread, the purpose of which is to know if such netting is effective in stopping a heli, not under which circumstances it should be applied.

To that end, please limit the discussion to the effectiveness of barrier netting in stopping helis. Additionally, evidence or real-world experience is of greater importance.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

09-21-2007 01:43 PM

helimodels
Senior Heliman
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Jeff Barringer stated the nets were approved by BMFA, but the rationale for that approval was not made clear.
Jeff...?

09-21-2007 08:52 PM

HOMEPAGE

iher
Heliman
Location: mexico

no,no,no.....no! prioritize !
Nets are not to keep helis away from people, but people away from helis!

Blade CX + Trex SE + (x2)Shuttle ZXX w/os46FXx + Eslayer wing + Raptor 90SE+ Futaba 9ch H

12-14-2007 07:58 PM

iher
Heliman
Location: mexico

2 things:

check : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8FNR8BryR0
now anchor the net to a post and Voila!

First you have moving parts. There is NO better way to stop them than disipating energy = flexing and elastic materials.
Hard and rigid will only change the direction of movement.
the face on concrete example was a good one, but think , or try the metal ball bouncing on hard concrete= if both are hard enough, there will be no loss of energy, therefore it will bounce constantly ( only air friccion will stop it)so you need materials to DEFORM and get rid of the inertia of the rotating parts within the heli and the momentum of the heli itsef.

1- stop with a LOOSE net the rotating parts such as blades ( see video) the looser it is the better it will stop it by mangling on the shaft stopping the rotating motion progressively, thus avoiding broken-flying-all-over-the place parts. if its too tight then it "might" be cut.

2- Stop the heli as a traveling mass. The net´s supports or elasticity will dissipate this energy and keep it from continuing its trajectory.

This you get little visibility reduction, a way to save everybody´s face and your heli . The goal is not so much to save the heli (minor damage is only a plus) but it´s avoiding flying debris.
as long as nobody is too close to the net ´cause then they´ll get hurt.

I would prefer BY FAR, being behind a loose fabric net with 1" holes or a bit larger even, hung on a flexible post ( PVC tipe) than a rigid metallic one

Blade CX + Trex SE + (x2)Shuttle ZXX w/os46FXx + Eslayer wing + Raptor 90SE+ Futaba 9ch H

12-14-2007 08:11 PM

Flint325
Senior Heliman
Location: City, State - Country

If anyone wants to build a cheep safety net, Lowes stocks what they call “deer netting” the stuff is cheep and strong. I built my son a batting cage out of the stuff and it held up well. Additionally it is thin so its easy to see through it.

I learned to fly inverted, I just stand on my head

12-14-2007 09:16 PM

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > Barrier Netting to Stop a Heli?

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