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e-Electric Conversions > Bergen Electric
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

Hello,

I have my trusty old Bergen Gasser laying around and I wish to convert this machine to electric. I have read posts and seen videos of the Vario XLV concerted as well as some others and it looks like a promissing avenue to tread down. I have never come across info for the Bergens.

I am aware of the costs involved. I do not know some of the details about my endeavor.

I need to know the benifits of motor to main shaft belt drive and how to fiquire out the ratio. Why can I not nachine a cupling between the motor and the provided clutch left over from the gas engine and utilize the bearing and original gear ratio? What motor would I want for this project? What about using an inner demon gear reduction? What is my target RPM for the motor vs. pinion vs. mail gear?

The ultimate goal is for a steady vibration free camera platform. Thanks in advance for your input.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
05-31-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote 
Bergen Electric

Hello,

I have my trusty old Bergen Gasser laying around and I wish to convert this machine to electric. I have read posts and seen videos of the Vario XLV concerted as well as some others and it looks like a promissing avenue to tread down. I have never come across info for the Bergens.

I am aware of the costs involved. I do not know some of the details about my endeavor.

I need to know the benifits of motor to main shaft belt drive and how to fiquire out the ratio. Why can I not nachine a cupling between the motor and the provided clutch left over from the gas engine and utilize the bearing and original gear ratio? What motor would I want for this project? What about using an inner demon gear reduction? What is my target RPM for the motor vs. pinion vs. mail gear?

The ultimate goal is for a steady vibration free camera platform. Thanks in advance for your input.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

The first you need to decide is what headspeed you want to have,
say 1500 rpm,
Then if you want to use the original gearing, choose an motor with the right Kv ( rpm / volt )
to achieve the headspeed you want with a given volt,
say 12 -14s LiPo is a good start I think...

You can certainly use the clutch from the gas engine but only if you use a motor that matches the original engine rpm

/Perry
06-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

Yeah speedbird I have been reading about these issues. Nice project by the way.

I understand many electric motors are of higher RPMs. But do they need to run at max rpm to facilitate power, or are they like a diesel engine that always has power no matter what rpm is developed.

So far I have decided to follow a post over at bergen rc, a fella posting "miami6". He is contemplating the same project as me. I like these Neu Motor 1915/1.5Y @450RPM/V and maybe a 10T pinion. I decided to use the clutch from the bergen to save on the machining of parts. The rest of the bird is ready after sitting around for a few years while I decided to sell it or not.

So after talking with Nue Motors, I find that the 1915/1.5Y is the way to go with a 10S pack spinning a 10T pinion. Unfortunatly Bergen does not make a 9T pinion, nor a 92 or 93T main gear.

16,650 Motor RPM @ 450 RMP/V (450X37V)
16650/9=1850 Headspeed.

With a load I believe the headspeed will be closer to 1700-1750RPM

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nicco
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Hog big li-po's are you planning to use?

Most is using 12s or higher.

/N
06-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote 
Yeah speedbird I have been reading about these issues. Nice project by the way.

I understand many electric motors are of higher RPMs. But do they need to run at max rpm to facilitate power, or are they like a diesel engine that always has power no matter what rpm is developed.

So far I have decided to follow a post over at bergen rc, a fella posting "miami6". He is contemplating the same project as me. I like these Neu Motor 1915/1.5Y @450RPM/V and maybe a 10T pinion. I decided to use the clutch from the bergen to save on the machining of parts. The rest of the bird is ready after sitting around for a few years while I decided to sell it or not.

So after talking with Nue Motors, I find that the 1915/1.5Y is the way to go with a 10S pack spinning a 10T pinion. Unfortunatly Bergen does not make a 9T pinion, nor a 92 or 93T main gear.

16,650 Motor RPM @ 450 RMP/V (450X37V)
16650/9=1850 Headspeed.

With a load I believe the headspeed will be closer to 1700-1750RPM

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

Hi Frequency47

The inrunners are best suitable to turn at high rpm then geared down to get the most out of it when the outrunners are like a diesel engine developing nice torque at lower rpm
all electric motors have torque from the start but you loose efficiency if you run them at to low throttle setting, calculate the gearing so the engine will be able to run at aprox 80% power to allow the governor some headroom

Choose a motor that can be run like this at 12s or more to keep the Amps down and the flight times looong,
that is what you want from a camera ship

I think Neu motors have or can make a custom wind motor with the right rpm/volt so you can run 12s or more with the stock gearing and still get the right headspeed

Yes you are correct that the headspeed on 10s with that gearing is going to be in the 1700 rpm area

/Perry
06-05-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

Yip I agree (I think)

The Nue Motor would put me at 1850RPM's@10S, and 2220@12S. I would not be running the head at that speed of-course. 12S would work, that takes me to the problem of running the motor too slow. I will keep reading unless someone reccomends a better motor solution. I am open for suggestions.

As I have said in the other post Bergen does not make a pinion smaller than 10T, I am stuck with a minimum ratio of 9-1.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote 
Yip I agree (I think)

The Nue Motor would put me at 1850RPM's@10S, and 2220@12S. I would not be running the head at that speed of-course. 12S would work, that takes me to the problem of running the motor too slow. I will keep reading unless someone reccomends a better motor solution. I am open for suggestions.

As I have said in the other post Bergen does not make a pinion smaller than 10T, I am stuck with a minimum ratio of 9-1.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

You could also look at the Actro 40 - 4,
with a Kontronik Power Jazz at 15s this setup will give you a headspeed of 1800 rpm under load
( with the 9:1 gearing )

This motor fly’s my XLV on 12s with power to spare so it should be able to handle the Bergen Gasser just fine even if you mount the camera gear on it

I will do some more calculations later today and then test fly it with the Actro 40 setup in Real Flight G3.5
if it fly’s good in the sim it will fly even better in real life

By the way,
what blades are you using on your Bergen gasser, 810mm ?

/Perry
06-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

Blades Size 710's, I have the standars Intrepid, not the EB.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Here is the setup I have calculated and then tested today in the Real Flight G3,5 sim

Motor: Actro 40 - 4
ESC: Kontronik Power Jazz 63V
Accu: FlightPower 4900 or 5000 mAh cells in a 15s2p config

This setup will work well in the Bergen with the stock 9:1 gearing,
( the govenor set to 1800 rpm on the head )
giving better performance then the gas engine it replaces,
with the 710mm blades it’s fully aerobatic,

For carrying cameras around I recommend you stretch it and use 810mm blades, it’s still aerobatic capable with these blades but it bogs a little when doing flips and tictocs,
not bad for an 20 lbs camera bird I think, hehe

/Perry
06-06-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

OK So we have fiquered out the propulsion, how about the blades. I have never been into 3D, unless you consider doing the funky chicken after a crash abstract 3D.

So what blades will give me the highest lift?

Does the Power Jazz have a limiter/govener built in?

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote 
OK So we have fiquered out the propulsion, how about the blades. I have never been into 3D, unless you consider doing the funky chicken after a crash abstract 3D.

So what blades will give me the highest lift?

Does the Power Jazz have a limiter/govener built in?

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

When it comes to blades in the 710 size I recommend the Radix YB710mm,
and at the 800 size I think MAH makes some 800mm Hi Lift Blades
if you really want some serious lifting power

Yes the Power Jazz has a governor built in it

/Perry
06-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Frequency47,

I have done some more test flying tonight,
and I also looked at the Bergen site,
if you use there 14t pinion with 90t main gear you get the 6,43:1 gear ratio, giving an enormous efficiency boost of 20% ! ! more then by using the 9:1 ratio that I first tried with the Actro 40 in the sim, = cooler running motor and longer flight times

So if you go with the Actro setup on 15s you should get the 14t pinion, the rotor rpm holds very well with this, ( 1800 rpm ) only boggs aprox 100 rpm even with the 800mm blades and with so hard flying that the standard 26cc Bergen boggs down to about 1400 rpm !

Flying time with the 15s2p 9800 mAh pack is around 15 min, 3D flying !

Flying it more like a camera ship and you should
get about 20 min flight times I think,

/Perry
06-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

hey speedbird
I have the 14T pinion. This is the pinion that arrived with the machine. I have the version that was shipped with the G231PUH. So I am liking the numbers so far.

What do you think of wide chord (70mm) Vario Blades or V-Blades?

Thanks for the input.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Speedbird370
Heliman
Location: Sweden

Quote 
hey speedbird
I have the 14T pinion. This is the pinion that arrived with the machine. I have the version that was shipped with the G231PUH. So I am liking the numbers so far.

What do you think of wide chord (70mm) Vario Blades or V-Blades?

Thanks for the input.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.

That’s really good, and then you can use the clutch also because the Actro has the same rpm as the G231

I think you should use the Radix YB710 blades, they have 16% less drag then other blades in the same length = longer flight times
they are also wide cord creating good lift

I think the Vario blades perform best at lower rpm like max 1400 for the 800mm blades
but if you choose the Vario blades get the ord.no.426 they are 750mm and should work too

My experience is that the V-Blades are better for 3D style flying,
and not for carrying load

/Perry
06-08-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Good Charlie
Heliman
Location: Monterrey-Mexico

Speedbird370

Who sells the motor Motor: Actro 40 - 4
ESC: Kontronik Power Jazz 63V
and battery : FlightPower 4900 or 5000 mAh cells in a 15s2p in the US and what is the standard price?
Any suggestions


Regards
Carlos H.
06-20-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Frequency47
Veteran
Location: Port Ewen, NY

I have not gotten that far yet, been busy.

CEO Sub-Terrainian Aircraft Development Corp.
06-20-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Good Charlie
Heliman
Location: Monterrey-Mexico

Motor and adapter base

Following with this idea and thanks to Perry, I am getting closer to finishing the electric setup. Here are some pictures of the mount and engine utilizing the same clutch from the gas engine.
05-24-2008 05:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Good Charlie
Heliman
Location: Monterrey-Mexico

Picture 1

05-24-2008 05:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Good Charlie
Heliman
Location: Monterrey-Mexico

Pictures

Pictures

05-26-2008 06:15 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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