RunRyder - Hornet problems please HELP.

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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet problems please HELP.

ejs232
Heliman
Location: Eureka Ca

First let me say what my Hornet is equipped with. Its a CP version with a Hacker B-20-22 motor, Pheonix 10 with gov, Futaba 240 gyro, speed up gears in the tail, all of Walts CNC upgrades, 3 1020 Kokam batts in series. Weight of Heli 11 oz. I went from about 1 minute of flight time with the stock modelsport batt (700 mah) to 1minute 45 sec with the lithium poly batts. If this is electric RC I want no part of it. I have 1500.00 into it. I am hearing people say they get as much as 20 minutes of flight time with the lithiums I would like to talk to someone who is really getting this. Here are some more stats. Normal mode only (wouldn't dream of a idle up mode at this point) -4 to +10 pitch range, head speed at 1800 with gov, tried to get 2100 gov will not let it speed up that much. Should I disable the gov? all gear mesh is perfect absoloutly no binding on the gear train. I have the new lithium charger by Kokam to charge the batts. Voltage before the flight was 12.0. Voltage cut off set with speed controller at 9 volts so as not to run batts below specified 2.85 min volts per cell. I am lost and discouraged with electric, If I am doing somthing wrong please let me know or if you have any ideas I would greatly appreciate them. I really want to give electrics a fair try. Please HELP.

01-29-2003 Over year old.

Phil Cole
Veteran
Location: Redwood City CA

I used to get 6 min on 8 x 720 mAh hydrides, using the brush motor.
Used to, because I have yet to rebuilt after a rather heavy crash. And yet, it was a CP. It had one or two upgrades, mostly for better controllability.

What pinion are you using? From memory, the 10-tooth is about right for the -22 motor, but it is worthwhile experimenting with this.

Is the speed control configured properly for the motor? There are several different timing modes to choose from.

One thing worth trying is put the original brush motor and controller back in. This is a much simpler thing to set up, and if you have doubts about the motor, it's only $10 to get another one instead of $90. Yes the ultimate performance of the brushless will be better, but if you can't get four or five minutes on the Speed 300 using hydrides, then something else is wrong. The CP won't fly for long at all on seven cells, you do need eight.

01-29-2003 Over year old.

ejs232
Heliman
Location: Eureka Ca

Hi Phil thanks for the quick response I have been in the garage working on it and checking email every 30 mins or so. I am running a 10 tooth, the motor timing according to the speed controller instructions is set for a Hacker type motor, the cut off votage is set at 9 volts per the instructions for the lithium batts I could cut off at 7.2 which would give me more flight time but would be pushing the absolute min batt discharge voltage which is 2.5 volts per cell (3 x 2.5 = 7.5 volts). Maybe guys are pushing their batts to the absolute lowest discharge voltage, but batts don't last long doing that and become very costly. The other thing I was thinking was to disable the gov. to let the motor carry a higher rpm around 2100 with a given pitch setting. I am just not sure. I don't have the stock motor or speed control so I am stuck with what I have although they work very well for the first minute or so.

01-29-2003 Over year old.

digidoc100
Senior Heliman
Location: Flower Mound, TX

Since you have changed the motor and ESC completely and you are still getting the low flight times I would turn my attention away from the power setup and to the actual airframe. When you state the weight of the heli, that is including batteries right? When you say you are getting lower flight times what do you mean exactly? Do you mean you don't even have the power to hover after less than two minutes? Your results certainly don't seem to be the norm. I was getting about 7 minutes of hovering with decent power out of mine before busting it up the other day. That's with stock motor and 8 cell 720 nimh. Since you know who Walt is, have you asked about this over where he and Johnk hang out?

-Chris

01-29-2003 Over year old.

cyhyam
Senior Heliman
Location: So. California

e-mail me @ cyhyam@skyeyephoto.com

Walt

01-29-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

digidoc100
Senior Heliman
Location: Flower Mound, TX

I'd say you are now in good hands ejs232.

-Chris

01-29-2003 Over year old.

ScottH
Senior Heliman
Location: Long Beach, Ca.

Yes, Walt should give you the answer. I was lucky enough to discuss the Hornet at the latest AMA show, and he we was a great asset to getting my Hornet to fly spectacular. If you can't get a hold of him, let me know. I will try to help you out.
Scott

01-29-2003 Over year old.

ejs232
Heliman
Location: Eureka Ca

Thank you guys for all the replies I will email Walt to see if he can help. This Heli is very cool and the flight time I do get with it leaves me wanting more.

Its better to be down here wishing you were up there then up there wishing you were down here. Thanks again, Eric

01-29-2003 Over year old.

ejs232
Heliman
Location: Eureka Ca

I sorry its taken me awhile to post the results of what was wrong with my Hornet. The problem from the first post was cured by Walt when we had a chance to talk, the fix as follows: Some of you probably already know this but I sure didn't. On my Phoenix 10 to get a rpm greater then 1800 in the low rpm gov mode, Walt told me to advance the atv to 140 on throttle and guess what it worked great. With the rpm increase (2100) I was able to get a conservative 6-7 minutes in a Hover and possibly more except with the increased rpms came a terrible vibration in or what seems like its in the tail. Oh no not another problem. I then proceded to stay up almost all night trying to find out why this was happening. I was on the web and in the shop on the web and in the shop. I found the posts about tail blade tracking and how to correct it. I was so happy I decided to get some sleep and fix in the morning. The next morning I talked with a friend then talked with Walt and both agreed this was what I needed to do. I started the blade tracking procedure but couldn't get enough adjustment because the hub is drilled so crooked I ordered another hub then realized it would probably be crooked to. I used a friends lathe and made a straight one. I then used 65mm bolts and set the tracking (perfect). I had the head off, only the main gear and main shaft were assembled to drive the tail, I spooled up the motor PERFECT not a single vibration from the tail, a real swiss watch. I did a few cartwheels thruogh the court then came back to reassemble the rest of the heli and fly. HOLY COW the heli vibrated so bad with the head and main blades on now the vertical fin flew across the shop. Dam! I am getting very tired of this. Once again I disassembled the head and main shaft only to find that the stock main shaft which has less flight time then the vertical fin that flew across the shop had a slight wabble. Go figure, its a brand new shaft it came with the heli kit. So now I am waiting for my new main blades and a one way bearing with shaft to get here and hope this fixes the problem. I am out of ideas if this will not cure the problem.

02-02-2003 Over year old.

ejs232
Heliman
Location: Eureka Ca

Installed new shaft problem solved very smooth.

02-13-2003 Over year old.

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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet problems please HELP.

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