RunRyder - Inner hole on EVO 50 Grips?

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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Inner hole on EVO 50 Grips?

Fit
Senior Heliman
Location: Temasek

Botched an auto and broke my SABs FGs. Now I am left with the TGD's which are noticeably slower than the SABS and not very fun to fly.

Being broke to get new blades, was thinking of trying the inner hole on the blade grips to get more cyclic throw. At the moment I am maxed out at about 6.5 degrees of cyclics and would prefer more with the heavier TGD blades.

Has anyone tried the inner holes before? Would it lead to catastrophic woof and poof or something destructive?

Any feedback welcomed,
Thanks!

Hornet X3D : GY401, 9CHP, AXI, MS116+____Evo 50, 50SXH

05-16-2007 Over year old.

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racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

It's been done.

There's a guy from Colorado that had posted his setup here. He stated he was using the inner hole on the blade grip. I replied to a post asking what kind of cyclic pitch input he was getting.

I can't seem to find the post any longer, nor can I remember his screen name.

With the inner hole, you're going to get more input in not only cyclic but collective, flybar, delta, etc.

I fly at sea level in thick air, however I have flown at the Reno fun fly (4800ft). I can understand why someone in Denver would want more cyclic input.

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-16-2007 Over year old.

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Jafa
Elite Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

Yeah, but it also gives more control to the flybar
If you're after mobility you don't want that

The inner holes on a the grip were intended for the old V1 head

My friends flies a Sceadu using the inner holes,
it does work fine but there are a few funny behaviours
because the flybar is too powerful now
like pulling out of a dive
and the head either darting up or wanting to stay pointed down
(can't remember which)

Lepton | TRex600Nitro | Sceadu | Freya | Avant | Predator Carbon Max

05-16-2007 Over year old.

Benj
Senior Heliman
Location: Mulgoa, NSW Australia

Yeah I have tried the inner hole, from memory I only got 1/2deg more cyclic, it was noticeable but the flybar had become 'too powerful'.
When I mean 'too powerful' what happened was the head would always want to go INTO the relative wind. What this meant was in forward flight the head wanted to dive, flying upright backwards the tail wanted to dip etc.
This is why I eventually just went back to the standard hole. I did fly the Sceadu Evo for quite a while on the inner hole though with no problems.

Benj

05-16-2007 Over year old.

hhart
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Guys,

I used the inner hole on the grip for along while. Cyclic and Collective are definitely more powerfull. I didn't see the funny tendency toward the wind like Benj and Jafa reported.

The only thing that I feel not great is the bouncing tic-tocs issues. I'm testing Trex 600 head on EVO50 this comin weekend to see any improvements. Might lower the mast some more (0.5 - 1cm) for better cyclic response.

Just to let you guys know, TREX600 flybar ratio is 1:0.5 , whereas EVO50 flybar ratio is 1:1

-hhart

05-16-2007 Over year old.

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

I'm using the inner holes on mine. It gave me more pitch and cyclic,but i cant see that made the cyclic any faster. I'm using radix blades and it looks like the only way to get faster cyclics is going back to the Rotortech bldes like i had before i broke them.
Asumming your using the paddles without any weights,you are going to have to get better blades.i didnt find the SAB blades to be that fast on cyclics,compared to Radix or Rotortechs.I'm also using so 440mm flybars to help speed it up.DOUG

05-16-2007 Over year old.

racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

hhart,

do you get the 1:1 ratio by using the inner hole (on the blade holder)?

I did some math...

mixing arm pivot distance (high mobility): 1.474"
Flybar tilt: 10 deg. = 0.256" displacement at mixer arm pivot
mix arm pivot to inner ball distance: 0.495"
mix arm pivot to outer ball distance: 0.986"
mixing arm IB to OB ratio: 0.502028398
input to blade holder: 0.1285"
blade holder pivot to input ball dist. (inner hole): 0.7635"
10 deg. flybar tilt = 9.554973369 deg. blade pitch
blade holder pivot to input ball dist. (outer hole): 0.9985"
10 deg. flybar tilt = 7.33434876 deg. blade pitch

The thing to do if you run the inner hole on the blade holder, also move the inner ball on the mixer arm to get less flybar input (move inner control ball away from pivot). If I recall, the SD-G mixer arms have 2 ball positions inner and outer which may allow you to achieve that to some degree.

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-16-2007 Over year old.

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hhart
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Andy,

it's in the inner hole of flybar carrier(mobility) and inner on the blade grips, I mess around with the SDG geometry on the bell hiller arms only to find out that after the mod, flybar ratio reduced by just a bit.

There are some pictures on my gallery showing the mr grip and bell hiller arms mounting position.

-hhart

05-16-2007 Over year old.

racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

hhart, roger that on the SD-G bell mixer arms...

If my math serves... The stock flybar ratio of the FZ-IV head is ~about~ .73 to 1. (outer hole on the blade holder)

By using the inner holes, the ratio increases to nearly 1 to 1 which is great for F3C but not so good for 3D, i.e. greater stability/flybar authority... what Jafa & Benj alluded to.

Better to go back to the stock setup... Rather than using the inner holes on the blade holder, move the inner control ball on the bell mixer away from the pivot (toward the outer ball), say by .100", you reduce the flybar ratio to about .6 to 1. Collective & cyclic pitch input also increases.

This seems like the more ideal solution, less flybar authority and more cyclic... on paper anyways.

I might look in to using the Carbon Extreme mixer arms for the Avant EFX: p/n CX00-100-682

andy-

photo courtesy CarbonExtreme

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-16-2007 Over year old.

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Benj
Senior Heliman
Location: Mulgoa, NSW Australia

Sorry, I should have given some more context to my setup when I tried the inner hole on the main blade grip.

80mm VPaddles
CarbonTech/Funkey 3D yellow and red/blue main blades
CarbonXtreme Sceadu EVO dampeners

Benj

05-16-2007 Over year old.

Fit
Senior Heliman
Location: Temasek

Great discussion going on. So even if my cyclic pitch increases with the inner hole, the increased authority of the flybar will result in weird tendencies in flight..

I will give it a try first and see how I like it. Since theres no real harm trying it. If it tends to dive like Jafa and BenJ described, maybe I can try what racing stripe suggested, which is to move the inner control ball away from the pivot point(towards the mainshaft). To achieve this I may try drilling a new hole for the inner control ball.

Hmm... I have got one more idea running through my head.. If the flybar has too much control authority, would it help in reducing its authority by moving the ball on the washout control arm inwards to reduce the input to the flybar?

MR10X: I have the lead weights in my paddles. Tried knocking them out but they seemed stuck for good in there. Never tried other blades other than the SABs, TGDs and funkey silvers. The next time i go blade shopping going to try the Radix most probably.

Hornet X3D : GY401, 9CHP, AXI, MS116+____Evo 50, 50SXH

05-17-2007 Over year old.

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hhart
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Andy,

my EVO50 with inner hole doesn't have any stability problem. it is flying as good inverted/upright/sideway/pirouette. It's pretty balance all around. Only during fast cyclic action, you would see a slight nodding through transitioning.

I think Jafa and BenJ has a different set of problem. Hey Andy, are coming to Bayside 'circumgyration' funfly this comin weekend? Maybe we could get together....

-hhart

05-17-2007 Over year old.

racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

hhart,

Is the Circumgyration event this weekend already!?!?

If I can get out of a commitment, I may check it out on Saturday afternoon. I doubt it, I flew last Sunday (Mothers Day).

I didn't mean to imply you had/have any stability issue. I'm sure it's just as you say. What increase in cyclic pitch you get is nulled to a degree by the increase in flybar input.

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-17-2007 Over year old.

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racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

I scored some Freya Evo (FFZ-III) bell mixer arms from someone...

The arms are too long in stock fashion. I hit the ends on a disc sander. The flybar ratio should be about .55 to 1 (in the stability hole on the seesaw & outer hole on the blade holder).

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-17-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

Quote
MR10X: I have the lead weights in my paddles. Tried knocking them out but they seemed stuck for good in there. Never tried other blades other than the SABs, TGDs and funkey silvers. The next time i go blade shopping going to try the Radix most probably.

As soft as lead is,it shouldnt be hard to drill out.The extra weight in the paddles will definately make the cyclic rate slower. I went to a longer flybar that will make the cyclic faster and help counter act some of the added flybar stability added by moving the balls to the inner hole on the blade grip. They are jr parts that came 2 in a package and are quite a bit stiffer than the evo bar.DOUG

05-17-2007 Over year old.

dgshaffer
Elite Veteran
Location: New Jersey

They are jr parts that came 2 in a package and are quite a bit stiffer than the evo bar

Interesting. Do you have the part number for these? The flybar on my EVO bends pretty often. I'm running V paddles

05-17-2007 Over year old.

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

It's JR #JRP983057 There are 2 to the bag and was $10. They are 440mm long,the stock evo bar is 390 long.DOUG

05-17-2007 Over year old.

pcmpete
Senior Heliman
Location: Southern California via Ireland

Tried it and did not like it, too sensitive

Pete B

TEAM BEAM
HiroboWorld forum

05-17-2007 Over year old.

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hhart
Senior Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

Andy,

Yaaaa.... Circumgyration is happening on this comin weekend.

With the Freya bell hiller arm mounted like that (0.55 ratio) how much total maximum pitch can you squeeze out.

05-17-2007 Over year old.

racingstripe
Veteran
Location: Sacramento, CA

Before:
collective pitch, +11/-13
cyclic, 6.25

After:
(I swapped the bell mixers only, no adjustments in Tx)
collective pitch, +16/-16 (off the scale on my gauge)
cyclic, 9

I'll try a test flight this afternoon maybe... Going to dial down the cyclic to 7 and use the middle hole on the t-lever to cut the collective input.

andy-

Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

05-17-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Inner hole on EVO 50 Grips?

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