rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 370 ONLINE 45 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
7 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7     NEXT    >> ]3514 viewsPOST REPLY
Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors

.
.
Aerial Photography and Video > Main-blade-induced vibration ....?
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
For info here's the vid I mentioned:-

Yikes! No fear I guess...

Ace
What could be more fun?
05-05-2008 12:25 AM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Thanks so much for this help guys!

ttt - Thanks for the info about the blade CofG ... it sounds possible, but I would be surprised if the blades CofG had changed over the past couple of weeks ...! Regarding the boom braces, the violent vibration in that Vimeo video above bust one of the attachment points for the braces so since then I have not been using them.

Malcolm - Yikes that is one serious harmonic vibration! It's almost as if that is happening on my heli at the moment, just on a smaller scale.

I think I should focus on one thing at a time - I somehow doubt this problem with tail and the sudden surge of vibration is being caused by the configuration of the mount up at the front - or is it? I would like to eliminate the tail problem first before moving on to the other parts of the heli.


nooobs - If you look at my post above starting "Just to keep you posted where I'm at with this problem ...", I'm currently doing tests without the main rotor blades ... and without the tail rotor blades too at times!

Thanks again for your continuing help guys, this forum is awesome

Cheers!


David
05-05-2008 12:30 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Here's a simple guess: The head centre block is worn/loose on the main shaft. Not sure if it is plastic or metal on your heli but the problem sounds as though the main rotor is creating a vibration that is resonating the tail boom. As I say, just a guess based on the fact that the heli was okay before you removed the flybar.

Paul.
05-05-2008 01:24 AM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi Paul, thanks for that thought.

However, this would not explain why, with everything removed from the tail (so the tail rotor blades, pitch slider and associated mechanisms), there is no vibration whatsoever in the tailboom, even at full throttle ... It's a tricky one!

Cheers


David
05-05-2008 01:27 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Yes of course you're right. Without trawling through all of your posts again, have you checked if the tail rotor output shaft is straight?

I must say, I have no quarrel with any of the suggestions that have been put forward here as unlikely as some may sound. I would guess that a smaller heli like your own is more prone to these kinds of vibrations but never having owned one it is only another guess.

I would though, look towards something being un-true as opposed to something out of balance simply because untrue is something that can easily change and your heli has pretty much low intertia components when compared to say a Gasser cameraship.

Good luck with it and you had better get some sleep now

Paul.
05-05-2008 04:18 AM
 
 
Vortex Aerial
Senior Heliman
Location: Huntington Beach Ca

David;

You stated that you noticed a new vibe when you went flybarless correct?
Perhaps a bunch of work but how about retrace your steps and put the machine back to stock.
My old ball mount was on lord mounts like yours only much much softer. It was as soft as an old record player suspension. NEVER had a vibe problem. Maybe i got really lucky, but i doubt this is a mount issue. And if your machine has all Mikado parts on it, id be hard pressed to think its a part issue either.
Start completely over again and address the vibes as they come.
When a LOGO is set up right(or any other heli for that matter) it should run as smooth as glass and look "static" when its in a hover.

Chris
05-05-2008 06:39 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

I had a little accident today whilst checking for vibes indoors. I was just getting it tracked down and running smoothly by adding small squares of tape to one of the tail blades (main blades are off), when a slight blast of wind from the tail rotor blew one of my most precious model aircraft off a nearby loudspeaker and it fell into the path of the tail rotor .....





I shouldn't have been testing it so close to the model .....


After that the tail rotor belt was noticably looser - whether it had been stressed or damaged I wasn't sure, so I've ordered a new one. I also ordered new tail blades and a new tail rotor shaft - as you suggested Paul, it might be slightly bent ....

Should arrive tomorrow. Once I've got the tail vibes sorted I'll move onto the main vibes ...

Cheers for now,


David
05-07-2008 10:14 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Quote 
as you suggested Paul, it might be slightly bent ....

I'll bet it is now! Sorry to see the damage on that little plane - now you have two things that need repairing

If the tail rotor feels 'looser', find out why i.e. where the extra clearance is in case it has stretched some GRN moulding back there. Do this before you strip it to fit the new parts.

Paul.
05-08-2008 01:29 AM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Paul - Sadly I had already dismantled the tail before I'd thought of checking where it had stretched .... maybe the tail case had slid along the tailboom (as it's only clamped on there with three screws) ...

Well I got the new tail shaft, belt and blades .... and there's no difference at all I even tried to remove some slop in the bolts which hold each tail rotor grip to the hub (with the bolts done up the blade grips could move a fraction of a mm), but still the same - a much stronger buzzing in the tail boom when at full throttle ... maybe I just have to reduce my headspeed Although that obviously won't get to the root of the problem ...

I don't know what else to check, this is driving me barmy.

The saga continues ....


David
05-09-2008 04:21 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Are you running a faster than normal head speed then?

Paul.
05-09-2008 04:36 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

I'm running pretty much the same as I always have - around 1800 I think. Not exactly sure, I'll have to tach it again ...


David
05-09-2008 05:30 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

Take the front mount off, test. Put stock landing gear on, test. Put it back to stock test. It sounds as if you have a resonance issue. Get the heli back to flying condition with no AP gear and hover etc.. Bench testing can give weird symptoms that don't show up in the air etc... Don't rely solely on bench testing.
05-09-2008 05:39 PM
 
 
Vortex Aerial
Senior Heliman
Location: Huntington Beach Ca

Quote 
Perhaps a bunch of work but how about retrace your steps and put the machine back to stock.


Quote 
Put it back to stock test.

Two votes for starting over

Sounds like your running out of options and are nearing a complete "do over"

One last thing to check before you do.......(and no offense here) are the tail rotor blades on in the correct orientation? And are the T/R grips also in the correct orientation (as per the instructions for the heli)? Also noticed you dont use the stock T/R control rod or its brace. Have you tried spinning it up with the tail gyro turned off?
05-09-2008 05:50 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi guys, thanks for your input

The only reason I'm not inclined to do a complete strip-down is that I can't see how this problem would be caused by anything other than part of the tail rotor mechanism ... I've been doing lots more testing putting small amounts of tape on the blades, and the vibration/buzzing comes and goes. Just recently, I was able to go to full throttle with no discernible vibration ... but a second or so later the vibration started to appear again. This has made me think that it might be a problem like blade flutter ... where some part of the tail rotor mechanism has enough play in it to allow it to oscillate/buzz, which in turn is sending vibrations down the tail boom into the heli .....

One test that I could do quite easily is remove the screws holding the chassis to the undercarriage and mount - the undercarriage and mount are one unit - if I remove these screws the heli be pretty much back to a stock fuselage-and-boom form .... might do that later/tomorrow ...

Cheers,


David

Edit: Oh and again, without the tail rotor mechanism on (so just the tail shaft sticking out of the boom) there is no vibration whatsoever.
05-09-2008 09:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pigs dont fly
Key Veteran
Location: ruined UK

Hi m8, just found your thread, are you testing your tail without the main blades attached?

Warning...This hobby is very addictive and may damage your wealth
05-10-2008 09:13 PM
 
 
pigs dont fly
Key Veteran
Location: ruined UK

Anyway...if they are not attached, then you are probably over speeding the tail (i.e due to the missing drag from the mains), and then the blade flutter would be fairly normal for its situation. Dont do it anymore though (if you are), as its a pretty dangerous thing to do.

Warning...This hobby is very addictive and may damage your wealth
05-10-2008 09:24 PM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi PDF, thanks for the warning Although I do have good news on the tail rotor front! The vibes are gone!

In the end it was caused by the bearings being a slightly loose fit in the tail rotor blade grips. So I coated the outside of the bearings with thin CA, let it dry, and then pushed the bearings back into place and now the tail is smooth

The bad news is that the main rotor vibration is just as much there as it was before It seems no amounts of tape, added to either blade, helps. I was able to get the heli off the ground, but I could sense that my control inputs were putting the heli on the brink of vibrating. During spool up there seem to be specific rotorspeeds which cause parts of the helicopter to start resonating. I will try dismantling parts of the mount, bit by bit until it's as stock as possible .... although surely if the system is perfectly balanced it shouldn't resonate at all? In other words, even if I removed the mount and other parts, won't whatever caused that vibration/resonance in the first place will still be there?

Cheers,


David
05-10-2008 10:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
During spool up there seem to be specific rotorspeeds which cause parts of the helicopter to start resonating.

David, everything resonates at some frequency. Even a concrete block. That's what a resonate frequency is. Usually that frequency is very high for most things and not attainable through mechanical vibrations.

When you have a resonate vibration problem you usually try to stiffen the mnember up so the frequency that causes it to resonate would have to increase. The only other option is to get out of the frequency (go by it) quickly so the flexing doesn't increase in amplitute and distroy your member.

Ace
What could be more fun?
05-11-2008 01:04 AM
 
 
Hogster
Key Veteran
Location: Surrey, UK

Hi all,

Well I got rid of the front mount altogether and put the old battery tray on .... same story

I even tried another set of blades (500mm as opposed to 580mm) and the vibration is still there, although it's slightly less noticeable ....

I've just started this thread:

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t430909p1/

as there seems to be a fair amount of backlash in the servos (maybe 1mm or so at the ends of the control horns) ....

I will now try changing back to the old flybarred setup (quite a bit of effort but it's the only option left) to see if that helps .... although as I mentioned in that new thread, I would really like to eliminate the vibration problem from the flybarless setup as it looks nicer and should perform better than the flybarred version ....

Cheers,


David
05-11-2008 04:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
I would really like to eliminate the vibration problem from the flybarless setup as it looks nicer and should perform better than the flybarred version ....

By now I would have made a set of head loaders. You have the skill. I have seen all kinds of wood work that you have done. The head loaders will tell you if your problem is balance related or control related. The head loaders have no lift component so an oscillating control output will not create an induced vibration that could resonate. If you still have the vibration with the headloaders than you have a balance issue likely due to mechanical asymmetry somewhere.

Ace
What could be more fun?
05-12-2008 12:20 AM
 
 
7 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7     NEXT    >> ]3514 viewsPOST REPLY
Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

.
.
Aerial Photography and Video > Main-blade-induced vibration ....?
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Wednesday, July 9 - 7:37 am - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie