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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Anyone Heard of these new Lipos Update # 4 Video Added
 
 
SSN Pru
Elite Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

It all depends on how they are run and what kind of initial condition the batteries are in if you start to abuse them.

If you avoid failure, you also avoid success.
06-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
SBH
Heliman
Location: Coralville, IA - USA

MrMel is absolutely right. Balanced charging is especially important with AirThunder batteries. In fact, we recommend that you check your cells for balance prior to each flight and do not use the pack if the difference between the highest-voltage cell and lowest-voltage cell is 0.2 volt or more. Please follow the specification when using our packs. It will give you the best performance and prolong the battery live.

Thanks.

Barry H.
AirThunder
06-27-2007 Over year old.
 
 
YSJan
New Heliman
Location: Daiba

Test Data had come out on Trex Tuning.

http://www.trex-tuning.com/lipos.php
07-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wingman77
Key Veteran
Location: Pulaski TN US

some of that data dosent look so good. after a single discharge you have a .7v imbalance???? I need 50 flights on my tpx 2070 to get a .1v imbalance.

and it seems to get very hot also in the description.
07-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
SBH
Heliman
Location: Coralville, IA - USA

Yes ... the report is out; here's the correct link:

http://www.trex-tuning.com/ATH2200.pdf

Ok ... please remove the dash between trex and tuning and type it in on your address bar. I think RR planted a bug in their system to prevent user from posting the correct address of their competitor. I can remove the dash when I edited it but it comes back automatically no matter what ... Barry H.
07-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
SBH
Heliman
Location: Coralville, IA - USA

Quote 
some of that data dosent look so good. after a single discharge you have a .7v imbalance???? I need 50 flights on my tpx 2070 to get a .1v imbalance.

and it seems to get very hot also in the description.

Dear Wingman77,

What you have said here actually contradicts the Closing Note in the testing. The tester specifically said "This pack (and cell) remained remarkably cool with extensive discharge." In the single-cell test, the temperature never got above 140°F even after continuous 25C discharge. Two 3S packs were tested. One of the pack is projected to have a temperature of 170°F after continuous 25C discharge while the other is projected to be around 160°F. In real-life situation, 10 to 15C continuous discharge is more of a norm and the temperature of the pack is about 120 to 135°F in the two tests. These are really low temperatures.

Please also note that voltage differential does not equal to cell imbalance. Our packs hold voltage extremely well; more than 85% of the capacity is above 3.3V per cell. All the users we have talked to appreciate the robustness of such discharge characteristic as you get a lot more "usable capacity" compared to other brands. The flip side is that, as MrMel had pointed out, there is not much capacity below 3.2 volts; when the voltage starts to drop, it drops fast. As a result, even the slightest difference in cell capacity can lead to seemingly large voltage difference between cells after a deep discharge. This is why the tester studied the alternative cut-off voltage. If you stop the discharge at 3.2V per cell, the voltage is actually quite balanced. As the tester concluded in the Closing Note: "The cells appeared to be quite closely matched, and tracked within 10’s of mV right up to the ‘knee’ in the discharge curve."

It may seem alarming when you see one cell having a rather low voltage after discharge, and we know for a fact that this poses challenge to some chargers. The LiPo user community has been conditioned to believe voltage balance is everything. That is true for old LiPo technology as over-discharge of a single cell usually proves detrimental to the entire pack. With the low voltage after 15C current draw in the tests, you would have had a puffed pack with many other brands. This just goes to show the robustness of our technology. We have circumvented the over-discharge problem and low voltage in one cell in fact poses no issue at all. In return, you get a longer, stronger flight. I do like to reiterate that it is utmost important to balance-charge our packs to ensure all the cells in the pack "start" balanced.

In fact, our pack held the voltage so well that it caused the testing equipment to over-heat as indicated by the thermal-trip in the first chart in the report. Voltages on many other brands are low and useless after 70% discharge.

All in all, our pack has got to be one of the most scrutinized batteries ever. And I'm proud to say that most if not all tests have proved the merits of our pack. I'm gathering testing data on TP and FP's 25C offering. If anyone know where I can finds them, please let me know.

Thank you for listening.

Barry H.
AirThunder
07-02-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wingman77
Key Veteran
Location: Pulaski TN US

SBH,

it would seem that I did not read enough to know what I was talking about, sorry.
thanks for clearing it up for me.
It seems like you do have a very nice product and I will buy one of your packs within the next three weeks.
07-03-2007 Over year old.
 
 
SBH
Heliman
Location: Coralville, IA - USA

Thank you for the kind words, Wingman77. Our users have always marveled at how cool our packs run; there's never any doubt about it. But voltage differential between cells after deep discharge is something that we found ourselves have to defend constantly as it is such a drastic departure from conventional LiPo technology. And some "smart" chargers do not know how to charge our pack when presented with the big voltage differences. But this difference is by design and is the reason why our users consistently report 1 to 2 minutes longer fly time when compared to the top brands.

Besides the Closing Note at the end, the trex-tuning report consists of mainly tables and charts without much explanation. I believe their intention is to present the raw data so readers can judge the results objectively. For those who are not into technical details, the Closing Note is a good summary. For those who are interested in the details, I have put together some comments to help interpret the data. Basically it's the same stuff I mentioned in my previous post but in more details. Here's the link:

http://www.airthunder.com/catalog01...iewThoughts.pdf

Warning ... this stuff is sleep-inducing. I'm an engineer and had worked in academia for too long; chewing on data is what nerds like me do for fun. It's probably not much fun for most normal people. But people ask me from time to time what those curves and numbers actually mean so ...

Cheers,
Barry H.
AirThunder
07-03-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Wingman77
Key Veteran
Location: Pulaski TN US

right now I dont have a balancer or balance charger. I plan to got one very soon when I do I will get a airthunder pack also.
07-03-2007 Over year old.
 
 
nojohnny101
Elite Veteran
Location: 10 miles north of Cincy, OHIO

hey
Quote 
[quote]this stuff is sleep-inducing. I'm an engineer and had worked in academia for too long; chewing on data is what nerds like me do for fun. It's probably not much fun for most normal people.

lol


looks good....a soon as the money comes in you'll be getting an order for about 2-3 packs from me


impressive...very impressive....




Thanks
~Will-i-am~
07-03-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
DWS6
Veteran
Location: Newark,DE

FYI guys,
I orderd 2 and was very impressed with just the first few flights. I got really aggressive to low and crashed it nose down and the pack is fine. The pack gives you confidence because you can definitly feel the extra power it provides.
Heli is down waiting on a Medusa motor. We will see how they hold up to that. I don't think it will be a problem though. They rock so far!

SBH,

Can we expect to see some more specials? I would like to pick up a few more packs very soon.

Dave
R90 / Vibe 50 / T-Rex SE / T-Rex 600N
07-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
xStatiCa
Senior Heliman
Location: New Port Richey, FL

One thing I wish all li-po manufacturers would do is use clear shrinkwrap so you can see any damage to the cells after a crash. I had one TP prolite get one cell punctured during a crash but the outer shrinkwrap bounced right back without any puncture in it. The edge of the speed control circuit board punctured it. If the shrinkwrapp were not clear so that I could see through the shrinkwrap to the cell package itself I would not have even known the one cell was punctured and slightly leaking fluid. The new TP extremes use black shrinkwrap though so it seems like even they are going black for the shrinkwrap now.
07-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Raydee
Veteran
Location: Western New York

SO far I have liked just about everything I have read on these cells. I run High amp draw boats along with my heli's andI have to use cells that can take some punishment. So far my ONLY complaint is the fact that Air Thunder has such a small amount of pack choices. I am looking for 3s3300mah and 4s3300mah packs for my toys but they only have 2200mah and 5000mah available. Is there any future plans for more cells?

The Future of Nitro is ELECTRIC
07-04-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Powrplay
Senior Heliman
Location: Vacaville, Ca

Several people flew the AT packs this weekend leaving them with "mouth wide open"! While I was watching one fly, the other pilot behind me was trying to bleed the packs to death by pumping the throttle. No worries though The packs have gone through over 40 cycles with absolutely no signs of quiting.

I saw on AT's website that they are having another SALE on their packs!
07-09-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
docjoe
Elite Veteran
Location: Stockton, CA United States

I flew one of the 4S packs this weekend. It was a little big but still fit in my TRex 450 canopy and boy did it have punch. But best of all, I flew for almost 10 minutes until the ESC cut it. I was hovering and shooting autos the last minute and the last auto, I felt the first hint of a power drain!

Too bad I have too many lipos to begin with. Otherwise, I'd be buying a bunch of these!

Joe
We haven't seen Colonel Angus around these parts for years!
07-09-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
bbeverlie
Key Veteran
Location: Hudson,New Hampshire.USA

So for the guys that have had these awhile like Air_Alpheus what
are your current cycle numbers? Anyone close to 100 yet? And
how it the current performance? Thanks!

AMA#846952
07-12-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Powrplay
Senior Heliman
Location: Vacaville, Ca

First flew with packs 6.11.07.

51 cycles with #1
47 cycles with #2

Just checked balance this morning before heading to work. All cells are balanced awaiting charge for their next flight.

Good to go!
07-12-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
NBHeli
Heliman
Location: St. Louis MO USA

SBH,
I have a quick question. Will the TP-205 balancer (with the adapter) be able to properly balance this battery, or will it get "confused" by the voltage difference?
07-18-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Powrplay
Senior Heliman
Location: Vacaville, Ca

NBHeli,

I sent you a PM, but the T205 (if working properly) should properly balance any lipo you plug into it.

Errol
07-18-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
bbeverlie
Key Veteran
Location: Hudson,New Hampshire.USA

I must say these folks at Airthunder ship fast! I ordered
a couple packs late Friday afternoon and had them Monday!

Great packing too, You can use the packaging to store the
packs Now the fun begins

AMA#846952
07-18-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Anyone Heard of these new Lipos Update # 4 Video Added
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