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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > ECO 8 ATVs
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Hi all,

Well the weather has improved and we're having some 'no wind' evenings so I've been out practising and am have some problems...
Bought a 2nd Heli a while ago - Trex450SE - nice machine but quite small and it's really easy to hover and move around (I'm not using the word 'fly' deliberately!) The ECO seems to be twitchy and although I have quite a lot (about 40%) Exponentail dialled in I'm interested to hear from others as to whether they limit servo travels with ATV settings and if so to what sort of level. (Perhaps angular movement of servo arm is one way to describe it)
Any feeback would me much appreciated as having upgraded to brushless and Lipo (A good move as there's loads of power and really good flight times) I'd like to get it setup in a manner where I don't have a heartattack every time i move the sticks!

I look forward to some thoughts

Carl
04-07-2007 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Carl, The ECO should definately not be twitchy in relation to a Trex450, could you give some details on setup.

Assuming all linkages are correct make sure you have plenty of headspeed and everything is tracking well.

Yes you will limit the degree of servo travel in the Swash AFR menu but generally only to stop binding and max/min pitch, 40% expo is excessive, I take it you are dialing in negative EXP and not positive

Ken
04-07-2007 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Setup

Hi Ken- Thnaks for your interest. The setup is fairly strightforward:

Stock plastic head & wooden blades, Carbon frames with additional stiffner behind motor, AXI2814/12 brushless with Phoenix 45 ESC - 22T. 3S1P 3700mAH EVO20 Lipo packs. Carbon rod tail picth drive from servo in rear of frame. GWS PG03 gyro.

Yes I'm using -40% Exponential which does make it more stable (or at least less sensitive). The head speed - well I can't measure it but it does 'sound' a fair bit lower than the Trex450 - perhaps I should get a couple more teeth on the motor pinion?
Curves: Throttle 0-70-80-90-100
Pitch 25-35-55-65-80 - gives me 0 to +9 deg pitch range

I'm not sure there is anything else about the setp that might be relavent but if there is let me know and I'll post it.
My feeling about the differences between the ECO & Trex are that the Trex just hangs there even hands off for a couple of seconds while the ECO wants input all of the time and has a habit of responding slowly so I tend to put too much input in and then have to compensate in the other direction. I took a look at a few ECO8 videos on YouTube and they all seem to show a stable setup.

Well hopefully this info might be useful and any comments welcome.

Carl
04-08-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Brett Sumpter
Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Check all your linkages for binding too - if they are stiff (and out of the box they were all very stiff on mine) it'll fly like crap. Made a big difference on mine, I was a little lazy the first time throwing it together
04-08-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Hello, the problem I had was the stock plastic lever arms created lots of slop at the flybar (both in my Eco-8 and 16). I have now upgraded the Eco-8 to the ball-raced alu lever arms which reduced the slop dramatically. Hoping to fly it today and see how it handles now.

Chachin..

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04-14-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Progress

Thanks all for your replies - I'm looking at the ball joints & general 'slop' in the head assembly. I'm expecting to pickup a larger Pinion and a tacho this weekend so I'll see what the head speed is and have the option to bump it up. I'll report back what I find and I think an Ali head might be a good upgrade...

Carl
04-17-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Head Speed Answers

Well today I picked up my JP Microtacho - quite pleased - easy to use and I've now got some figures that I'd very much like someone else to comment on... I'm getting about 1700RPM in a hover - some Googleing shows that this is probably about right but can anyone tell me what whether I can go higher on the stock plastic head? - I also checked the Trex450SE and it's up at 2400ish RPM and I've heard that higher heas speeds lead to a more stable machine so any comments welcome.
My next plan is to go through the setup procedure again and check all of the ball joints - If anything mine feel fairly loose.

Carl
04-21-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Hello, do you have thrust bearings in the head?? I wouldn't go any higher than 1700rpms without them.

Chachin..

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04-21-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Thrust Bearings

Thanks for the feedback Chachin... No I don't have the thrust bearing upgrade - I'll have a look for one I've done the tail bearings as people have said that the stock ones explode fairly regularly. I have considered the Ali head but reading other threads here it looks like that doesn't come with thrust bearings as standard...

Carl
04-22-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Brett Sumpter
Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Yeah, I'd want the headspeed a bit lower on the stock hardware!

Mine is running closer to 1400 rpm, with semi-symmetrical fiberglass blades - I'm not into 3d stuff, don't need anything higher.
04-22-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Interesting replies

All these comments are very interesting and I'm going to address a few of the issues... Nobody has commented on the initial question of whether they limit servo travels or just allow the full movement. I've got my values down at 60% to limit the movements.

Can anyone tell me if they do this of perhaps use exponential to make the centre stick a little less sensitive.

Also fine on the comments on head speed - I'm going to get some thrust bearings from a SMB bearings here in the UK and I'll turn up some T Nuts.

Brett - I'd be interested to know how stable your ECO is at 1400RPM

Carl
04-22-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cmr772003
Heliman
Location: South Coast UK

Findings

Just a quick update - I ordered the thrust bearing kit from CME in the US which arrived within a week - very good service and as they're having a sale on Ikarus parts I took the opportunity to get the tail bearing upgrade and another set of blades - all very inexpensive. I've also changed the Gyro from the stock PG-03 to a GY401 - Amazing differnce - the tail actually responds properly! And while I was updating things I fitted thye JP Carbon blades that I've had lying around for a few months. Looks great and my initial flight in the garden shows more stabilty so a move in the right direction.
Thanks for all you comments - I just need to get better at flying now!

Carl
04-29-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > ECO 8 ATVs
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