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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Wanting to start aerobatic autos
 
 
Cygnet
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

I am flying and eagle with a set of 195gram TG's. I have been flying for 2 years now and am quit capable of doing 3d and autos ect. When i auto i can generally get enough headspeed toget 5-7 seconds of hover at the bottom. I would like to try an inverted auto. What would be the best way to do this first time round? Fly along inverted hit throttle hold and use postive pitch and then roll, loop, flip? What is the best way to exit the inverted bit of the auto. I can do it on the simulator all day long but am just interested in knowing the best exit method for real life.

Anyway thanks for the help

Regards

Marc
01-07-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

Yes,either climb out inverted and hit hold or fly in from inverted.Though i liked to start upright and roll to inverted,then do the descent and recovery to upright.
I like to roll out as i seemed to lose less headspeed that way,though you do get more height loss than you do by "bunting" half outside looping to a backwards landing,but as i said i used to lose more rpm practising the half outside to backwards.

Aim for a rate of descent that isn't too fast,which will be at the expense of some rpm loss,but at the same time don't slow it up too much by staying at 0 degrees for too long on the way down.

Lots of forward speed also helps but it can be your enemy too,in a situation where the recovery to upright is left very low/late.If you don't get the roll collective timing right you can end up with too much forward speed to get rid of and if the roll to upright was a cockup with very little rotor speed left, there's very little left to slow up the forward speed and put the heli down gently.This situation is worst when it is flat calm as raising the nose generally won't give you any rpm back like it does when there is a headwind.

For the roll out,use 0 degrees to begin with (+4 to +6 on the way down),but you can also cross past 0 degrees and blip into negative whilst still inverted just before the roll to upright to minimise the height loss,but this robs headspeed so you need to watch the headspeed before deciding to just roll out at zero or blip some negative.

Just make sure all your recoveries are not left too late,don't be tempted to keep bringing it down lower (later recoveries) until you are confident you can get the timing right every time and work on the timing to get the least rpm loss during the roll to upright.
01-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Cygnet
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Another question. How much cyclic should i apply to roll out? Also if realy in the crap what is the better way to bail out. Finish the auto and hope or flick out of TH and into ID1 and hope the blades don't flick back. I will be trying this on the weekend and i think i will titen the blades right up to minimise the risk.

Thanks Again

Regards

Marc
01-07-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

Marc,


How much cyclic to apply:

To start with use the lot,but do it up high. Also don't move the collective while you do it, in case the heli has any nasty pitching habits when lots of cyclic is used with too much collective movement at the same time


but to get the least rpm loss during the roll

The least you can get away with that still gives a good roll rate ,but also you don't want so little that the heli spends all day getting back around a half roll as the longer the heli is on knife edge the more the stored rpm will decay.
If you have a hot setup as opposed to an FAI type (heavier ) setup on the flybar, then probably half your available stick,but the effectiveness is linked to the rpm on the rotor head at the time.If the rpm has really dropped off and you panic then apply full cyclic to get the heli to half roll quicker it can have the opposite effect,the drag from the high deflection slows the blades even more.It's very much a fly ,try and experiment thing.

Definately tighten your blades up.The decision wether to abort or go for it can be a difficult one,you'll have to use your own judgement.If it's left really late ,perhaps only 10 or 15 feet after upright it is often too late to abort.If you have a motor that has a sluggish pickup (set rich) from idle to mid rpm the heli might still hit the deck anyway while you're waiting for the engine power to come back in.
If you have the height and don't like how it's looking rotor rpm wise always abort when you can,you can have a lot more goes that way but if you go for it and smack the boom and blades just once ,it tends to cut short the practise for that day
If you need to abort into idle up,go to 0 degrees and 50% power first if you have the time,which will give the engine a chance to pickup faster and lessen the load when the engine tries to suddenly drive the blades from nearly stopped ie less likely to fold back in the grips and easier on the clutch/drivetrain
01-07-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Cygnet
Heliman
Location: Sydney Australia

Thanks This helps heaps

By the way the pick up isn't a problem but i still would use 0 degrees when flicking into id1 anyway. The eagle has ys80, gy601 and a few other things but i will give the inverted auto a try on the weekend.
Thanks for your help!

Kind Regards

Marc
01-07-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

Marc,
Best of luck with the aerobatic auto's.

I don't want to put you off too much telling you
i have crashed a few times in the past practising but in every case it has been down to me pushing my luck and leaving the recovery too late or making a balls of the last roll left too low.
I was also doing a pushover recovery auto once and left the recovery very late,i sort of had a brain fade /panic moment and buried both sticks forward,it tried to half loop out but more just slipped/accelerated into the deck inverted.I've also managed to fold a pair of blades back on a 30 machine just after a roll and got them trapped under the horizontal fin,then run out of time while the engine was trying to get the blades back out.

So stay high on the recoveries to begin with until you get really really confident with your roll out/or half loop recoveries if you want to try those




Martin
01-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Wanting to start aerobatic autos
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