RunRyder - CSM720 gyro mounting in Knight 50 Metal

rrTV-PHOTO

New HD TV

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 356 ONLINE 28 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

1 page

672 views

POST REPLY

E-flite	.	Next D	.	Fast Lad Performance
	.		.

Compass Knight 50 > CSM720 gyro mounting in Knight 50 Metal

cycloneflyer
Heliman
Location: southampton .England

Has anyone used this combination . I've heard with the CSM720 is quite sensitive about mounting and with so many options - 2 foam mounts ,4 foam mounts and/or the stainless steel plate . Which is the best starting point.

Thanks

01-11-2007 Over year old.

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

If you can, go with the Futaba 401 for the Knight.
A mate of mine had all sorts of problems with the 720 on his Knight.
Basically the internal sensor is way too sensitive (or so it would seem) and thus has a question mark over reliability.
I'd use a 720 in an electric heli any day but not in a nitro or gasser.
But if you must use it then use the stainless plate and a fair bit of gyro foam, at least 6 squares.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-12-2007 Over year old.

cycloneflyer
Heliman
Location: southampton .England

Wow - it must be sensitive to use 6 pieces of mounting tape !! If it was'nt the fact I had a surplus of JR 8700g servos I probably would have bought a Futaba 611.

01-12-2007 Over year old.

Colin Mill
Veteran
Location: England

Hi cycloneflyer

The SL720 should be mounted with the AV system supplied with the gyro which includes a stainless plate, 10mm square AV foam pads, and a 25mm square thin pad. The gyro is mounted onto the stainless plate using the thin white pad. The steel plate is then mounted to the airframe using 4 of the foam squares (one at each corner of the metal plate). If the mounting location is a long way from the helicopter C of G or the teeter damping on the heli is poor you may find an advantage in using two extra foams under the metal plate to increase the stiffness.

If you have any questions please let me know.

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

Hi deiniolpook

FYI the sensor in the 720 comes from Analog Devices, a well respected USA sensor manufacturer and is rated to survive over 3000G and we have not yet had to replace one (even when the gyro electronics was knocked clean out of its case by a flybar paddle) so you need have no worries about reliability. Also, as regards sensitivity we have, amongst many others, two current national FAI champions who are SL720 users (Dave Fisher - UK Champion and Dave Nolan - Irish Champion) very happily using the gyro in 90 size machines

Regards

Colin

01-12-2007 Over year old.

cycloneflyer
Heliman
Location: southampton .England

Hi Colin,
Sorry I did'nt mean to take a swipe at the CSM product range . Indeed I have always been happy to use CSM gyros . I dont get the chance to fly as often as I would like due to other commitments and for this reason I have taken the lazy option and asked for mounting opinions of this great gyro . The only bad thing I have heard about the CSM720 is the vibration sensitivity . Whether this is down to poor individual machine preparation or something else I wont know until I try it.
Thanks for taking the time to reply

01-12-2007 Over year old.

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

Hi Colin Mill,

I'm afraid to tell you that it was a 720 gyro that was responsible for my mates Knight being smashed up, the gyro because of it's high sensitivity sensor was playing up for a while and then one day decided to pack up completely.
I know for a FACT that my mate contacted CSM regarding this matter and whoever it was he spoke to admitted (in the end) that the sensor is overly sensitive and could be prone to problems in the future.
The gyro was installed in his machine following the instructions to the letter and was properly set up.
Apparently it is becoming common knowledge that the 720 has a flaw and that there are better gyros out there.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-12-2007 Over year old.

Colin Mill
Veteran
Location: England

Quote
sensor was playing up for a while and then one day decided to pack up completely

I repeat what I said - we have not had to replace any sensor in any SL720 gyro. If your friend rang CSM he would have spoken to Rob or myself and we both know the track record of the Analog Devices sensor and have no reservations whatsoever as to its reliability. AD are a company with a colossal reputation for performance and reliability which has been born out in our experience with this product.

I will be more than happy to discuss your friend's particular problem directly and openly with him here on RunRyder - perhaps you could get him to post on here and PM me his real identity so that we can check our service logs for the information on his gyro and we can take it from there.

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

01-13-2007 Over year old.

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

Colin

You've not had to replace any sensors because the gyro in question was exchanged by the shop who supplied it, this was due to the fact that it was still within the time period that the law dictates that it's the shops responsibility to sort it out and not the manufacturer. for some reason it would seem that the faulty unit never got back to CSM.
With regards to reliability I'm sure there are hundereds of people out there who are more than happy with the gyro and would swear by it but by the same token nobody could ever expect the manufacturer themselves to openly admit that there could be a issue with long-term reliability, after all if you did that I'm sure your sales figures would take a plunge.
Like I said, I'd buy a 720 tomorrow if it was for an electric but for nitro/gasser machines I'd feel much happier using something else based on information that I've heared from different people and from what I've seen with my own eyes.
BTW respect for standing by your products.
Regards

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

P.J.
Veteran
Location: Ireland

deiniolpoo,

Quote
I know for a FACT that my mate contacted CSM regarding this matter and whoever it was he spoke to admitted (in the end) that the sensor is overly sensitive and could be prone to problems in the future.

So CSM told you the there 720 is prone to problems, come on give them some respect and tell the truth.

The Csm 720 works as good if not better then any other gyro I've used if you set it up right but know adays you have guys thinking they can set up gyro's without reading the manual.

P.J.

Mikado Helicopters
Flightpower
Spektrum RC
Curtis Youngblood.com
Magnum Fuel
YS

01-13-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

P.J.

You obviously can't read a sentence properly, I said that my mate had contacted CSM with regard to his gyro NOT me!!
I'm not putting CSM down, I do use an SL 420 micro on my heli and find it to be very good.
But the fact is numerous people are now slowly starting to find that the high sensitivity of the sensor IS causing problems. People are entitled to their opinion and should be able voice it without being accused of not telling the truth or not paying attention to the instructions.
Like I said, I'd have no problems at all with using a 720 in something like an electric Raptor or a T-Rex 600 but for nitro/gasser use, in the long run, I think that there are better gyros available.
You can't exactly blame CSM for not openly admitting here on the world wide web that one of their products did not turn out quite as expected, that would be shooting themselves right in the foot and their sales would undoubtly suffer once the word got around.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

P.J.
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Quote
You obviously can't read a sentence properly, I said that my mate had contacted CSM with regard to his gyro NOT me!!

Well if it is your mate why are you posting this can he not fight his own battle, but what your saying is silly cause why would CSM say there products are prone to problem's that would be telling lie's.

I think you should go and have a chat with your mate and tell him your after making a fool of yourself on Runryder.
There are hundreds of guys using the CSM 720 on glow heli's without an single issue.

P.J.

Mikado Helicopters
Flightpower
Spektrum RC
Curtis Youngblood.com
Magnum Fuel
YS

01-13-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

For god sake man, I'm not trying to fight anyones battles!!!
Someone here on RR politely asked for some info regarding the 720 and his Knight and I've simply provided him with some info based on how a good friend of mine got on with his 720 and Knight and also from what both myself and my friend have heared from other people.

Quote
why would CSM say there products are prone to problem's that would be telling lie's.

It was after a rather heated conversation between my mate and a CSM employee that CSM finally admitted that a long term problem could be present, that's not exactly something a manufacturer wants broadcast on the WWW, they do have their image and sales to consider. It was after this conversation that my friend decided to sell the brand new replacement 720 provided by the model shop for fear of being plagued by the same problems or worse yet another crash.
Luckily the model shop that sold the gyro payed for the cost of the repairs to his heli.
I am MORE than aware that loads of flyers have used the 720 with great success, but to use one on a nitro/gasser I personally would rather not and I will also continue to make this recommendation to others.
So the choice is simple to anyone who reads this, use a 720 with a nitro/gasser and if you have no problems then that's great, well done, but please bare in mind that there are numerous flyers out there who are not so convinced about the 720.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

P.J.
Veteran
Location: Ireland

deiniolpoo,

Have you ever owned a 720

P.J.

Mikado Helicopters
Flightpower
Spektrum RC
Curtis Youngblood.com
Magnum Fuel
YS

01-13-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

DOKEY
rrProfessor
Location: Northampton UK

So a CSM720 wins 3DM 2005 in a nitro, a fair few at 3DM 2006 were using the CSM720 in a nitro, most I have seen and know are using the CSM in a nitro, hhhhmmmmmm dont bias your advice to others on just one experience maybe

(Never had problems here, nor anyone at the club I am at)

Check the gallery!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

Quote
Have you ever owned a 720

What do you think??

Already said that my 420 micro is doing the job just fine.

BTW there is a 'K' at the end of my user name.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

deiniolpook
Senior Heliman
Location: West Wales, UK

Quote
So a CSM720 wins 3DM 2005 in a nitro, a fair few at 3DM 2006 were using the CSM720 in a nitro

Yes I do know this, but we're talking here of long-term reliability.
My friends initially was top notch, but then the problems started to appear.

Am I still in control?......................OH!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

DOKEY
rrProfessor
Location: Northampton UK

Maybe this is an isolated issue, and to be fair I would not base any further advice on it.
I still have an uncased CSM720 in use, which has never even given me a slight issue, let alone all the others I have running, think how long they have been in use!!
Maybe any gyro that is subject to more vibrations than what would normally be called acceptable will give up in the long run ??

Check the gallery!

01-13-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Colin Mill
Veteran
Location: England

Hi Dokey

I'm glad your early unit is still working well. I'm not sure if I mentioned at the time but before we adopted the sensor for the 720 we subjected test units to vibration testing on our vibration rig. These tests involved subjecting the gyros to vibrations of 1250g acceleration over 180 to 300 Hz (10,800 - 18,000 rpm) in all three axes for several hundred hours. To give you an idea of how severe this test is its a 10mm peak-to-peak oscillation at 15,000 rpm (250Hz) - massively outside anything that the helicopter mechanics could survive. Not only did all the test samples survive, they remained in temperature calibration throughout. A remarkable resilience in my view.

Best regards

Colin

01-13-2007 Over year old.

3D Heli Ireland
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Sorry guys, you are all probably wanting to let this thread die but I just have to comment here with my 2 pence worth.

I have now had CSM 720s in four 90 machines (2 MA Fury & 2 MA Stratus) and I have to honestly say I have never once had any gyro vib issues and I am running headspeeds in excess of 1900rpm. All of the gyros have worked 100% from the box for me no problem.

But perhaps everyone is looking at the wrong issue here. I pride myself in taking well spent time in building and setting up a machine that will have very few if any vib issues. I count myself fortunate not to be of the "ARTF" "Playstation Generation" (not directed at anyone in particular before anyone bites!) and realise that if I want my machines to work as they were designed to work then I need to spend time getting it right.

Now that has a knock on effect. Fewer heli vibs translates to prolonged radio equipment life, bearing life and yep you guessed it better gyro performance and life span.

I recall a couple of years ago I knew a guy with a 50 sized machine who could not get his GY401 to hold properly. If I was to have blindly listened to him I would have said the gyro was faulty. That was until I saw his machine in the air. A washing machine on the spin cycle with very poor control rod geometry. Nuff said.

CSM make high quality high performance products and I personally cannot find alternative products to match them.

Like I said, just my 2 pence worth.............

Miniature Aircraft USA
Motors & Rotors
CSM
FlightPower
SAB
Cool Power

01-14-2007 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

1 page

672 views

POST REPLY

Ace Hobby	.	Esprit Model	.	Thunder Power RC
	.		.

Compass Knight 50 > CSM720 gyro mounting in Knight 50 Metal

UPDATE SCREEN PRINT TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic