RunRyder - Eco-8 BL Build, mech mixing, done

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco-8 BL Build, mech mixing, done

400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

Here's a couple a photos to show what I came up with, all new. Forgive webcam.

A continuation of my other slightly convoluted build thread here
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t305810p1/

The mech mixer doesn't really get a fair shake (well that depends on flying style), it's designed rough, but with minor work/lube it works like rails. Now I have the option to use my old CPD4 co-pilot system. If I find a need, I'll go 120 eCCPM later.

Needed expo, it's sensitive & predictable, to maintain steady hover, very impressive heli, hovers with much authority on 16T and an old 7cell truck pack for 10mins before I gave up (ESC set for softcut at 0.8v/cell).

The red alum motor plate is in, but the addition vertical frame brace needs a mod to fit (those two servos are a tight fit, but they do center well, for now, $12 each & 41oz/.11sec). Auto-rotate & double ball-bearing tail grips with locktite.

Used low temp hot glue on canopy, might change to clear window later.

Mega 22/20/3H (5MM) & 65-70A ESC, 70A/20cell with soft start & cutoff, programmable, $46 too, doesn't even get warm. Homemade 5/6V LDO BEC linear BEC is shrinked on lower right, a single LM1084, good for 5A (digital servo ready).

Leftside of the heli & mech mixer; note the graphite lube and that the "tail" linkage is left entirely off the mech mixer. With a heli radio, seperate the pitch & throttle signals (to get idependant curves) and it's easy to boom mount the tail servo.

Rightside of the heli & mech mixer, used a 540 can heatsink. Must build 5mm collar/fan assembly.

Telebee gyro & $18 Corona DSP 6CH RX

I used a small metal rod to connect the servo, works great.

The 7cell batts (altho work fine) in this photo are being replaced with new, trying to find balance between cell count, motor heat, weight, pinion, etc.

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-26-2006 Over year old.

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

mechanical mixer debut

looks great I see you found the right combo It sounds like you would almost suggest this heli for a newbie? I am up to hardware issues on mine I have to find a flush mount screw to turn the ball on the backside of the servo arm of pitch servo for main shaft clearence. Meanwhile I got impatient put blades on and slowly spun her up in dining room slow speed wobble. Sat back down and realized you really do need to track and balance blades.

12-26-2006 Over year old.

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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

It's ironic really; Eco is rare, you have to build it from scratch, so in that respect any errors a beginner might make (especially mech mixer) would really show. Taken slow, this forced build shows how everything works together.

But built well (say eCCPM, but not necessarily, mixer works if great care is given & servos are strong enough) I think it makes a great beginner heli (serious pilots will pay the $40 for autorotate), if the learning went slow. Its stability & fast charging batts helps, as does the vast motor/batt combinations. A $12.99 brushed 600 motor works fine, but just for ~dozen flights give or take few depending on pilot.

I had a need for the mixer (plus it saved me $ to get BL motor), plus I can always go eCCPM if I want to remount my servos; BTW servo mounting with mixer can be odd if you get big "cheapies" like I did; my Dad had the clever idea of mounting the "brass ball" to the inside of the servo horn. This allowed me to use just the 4 included 5mm servo spacers to mount those two side servos, with the canopy still fitting, & the horns clear, by a few mm's.

Biggest recommendation for mech mixer is to use heli TX, leave off "tail" connection & boom mount that servo/link, then use graphite grease & "massage" the plastic balls/connects/bushings so everything moves super smooth, but won't "pop-off" inflight; clearly would be disaster, just as a "stuck" mixer would be (pitch wouldn't change if the plate stuck, & it just rides between two plastic side frames).

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-26-2006 Over year old.

400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

Main shaft clearance

tyran02 - How come the stock hardware kit from the Eco8 & your servo stuff combined won't allow clearance?

I don't know if it's in my pics (I'll look or add) but I made my pitch link and elevator servo link nearly straight. So the main shaft clears decently, the 5mm servo spacers were most useful for this purpose.

My pitch horn stays inside the frame (barely) in movement, tho the elevator one comes out of frame (why I haven't mounted my alum vert brace as of yet, $20 helps stock frame alot, but more of a friend to eCCPM, I dremeled for pitch horn, for elev horn is a hit) towards the motor, but doesn't hit.

I used the manual for all link lengths perfect to the mm, I could have adjusted, but with my "bluebird 380" servos/horns it wouldn't have mattered for main shaft clearance. I also had the servos "live", on a battery with RX, as I carefully adjusted their horns for best clearance. My left/right pics show one servo move frontward than the other, just worked better to clear the main shaft. It's narrow in there!

BTW, most consider Eco8 good 2nd heli, tho several have learned & you have fixed pitch experience (also, I'm getting what the manual shows, like -2deg to +10deg pitch, without further mods, plenty for smooth scale flight).

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-27-2006 Over year old.

CoolMax
Heliman
Location: SF Bay Area, CA - USA

Great job,

I'll post my setup some time later.

CoolMax

12-28-2006 Over year old.

400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

Thanks,

Flew several 7cell packs tonight (3800's). With 16T (5mm) pinion, 22/20/3h motor. 12 min flights, 3lb 3oz AUW, ESC slow cuts motor at 0.8v/cell (so 3550mah goes back in). Motor/ESC/cells are cold (motor might hit 42C).

FXaero pinion calc shows max rotor at 1208rpm & heavy load at 1014rpm. This can't be right, or I'm being fooled. It seems awfully fast spinning, even loaded & climbing, it's really slicing the air quick (I killed the lift using a high pos blade pitch & it slowed bigtime & still flew). I picked my pinion using this online calc, planning on using 8cell packs.

I'm thinking I might get better duration adding the 8th cell or more (lower current, estimating 17.5A avg draw in hover), lower headspeed (I've adding the 35T metal tail pulley, much better). It is fun to fly on higher headspeed, but it doesn't need it, & I did the double tail grip bearings but no thrust on the main grips.

Sure is a blast, very stable & plenty of control, batt packs charge easily at 4.5A & remain under 45C & in no time it's back up (need more recharge TX AA 2500 batts)

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-28-2006 Over year old.

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

either way

As you found out the tolerance of different equip. is a problem. I made a servo tray that sets my elevator servo out 1/2" and mounts to side frame. Could of been a 1mm less but used aluminum c chanel. The stock hardware with my servo and 5mm spacer for pitch servo ball reversed fits great. although screw head close to rubbing frame sitting atop balllink a countersink head screw will fix this though. I may remove my servo tray and use a reverse balllink on elevator also as I now see this is the key to making it fit.

12-28-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

reversed balllink problem

reversed ball link shown servo wheel wont sit flush and hardware hits servo bell housing. any servo wheel shims or taller wheel ideas.

12-28-2006 Over year old.

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400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

ballink reversed pic

That a Tower Hobbies servo?? Two things concern me.

What is the model and torque rating? Mech mixing needs high torque to work smooth even oiled up. It may just make stripping noises unless your pitch link and elevator link pull real easy with your hand.

The output horn seems cut too short. Had it been longer, the hardware may have missed the front of the servo is my thinking? Have you another arm or a way to lengthen it (add plastic extension, epoxy/screws, mount ball farther away a tad)?

Might it be easier to replace the servo? I know it's money. But a Bluebird 380 (HS81 spec) is more than enough (I run 6V and don't need to). You don't need matching servos without eCCPM (always good tho for later upgrade to eCCPM). Which makes my last Q... what TX?? Is it more than just servo reversing, like expo per servo, this helps with non-matching servos on mech mix collective pitch.

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-29-2006 Over year old.

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

book doesnt work out

400HeliPilot
I see your mixer pushrod (pitch) is at a 45 degree angle the book shows the servo arm pointing down you have yours pointing up did you realize that with a Y cable you cant simply reverse servo as this will shutdown your esc. I was curious about just changing my servo wiring flipping black and white I assume the red 12v is constant and b&w are active low signal wires?

12-29-2006 Over year old.

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CoolMax
Heliman
Location: SF Bay Area, CA - USA

No,

The three wires to the servo is
White or Orange: Signal
Red: Power (4.8V or 6V)
Black: Ground

Ground is your reference point for power and signal, you can't swap ground and signal wire, otherwise servo won't work.

CoolMax

12-29-2006 Over year old.

400HeliPilot
Senior Heliman
Location: Boca Raton, Fl - USA

tryan02 - Coolmax said it right, Blk (or ground) is a reference for the signal (white/orange) which is a pulse having a rate between 1ms and 2ms (yup just 1 thousandth of a sec in time, pulsed, constantly controls all your stick motion).

I looked at my left mixer pic, I think it's what you mean when you say the pitch arm is at 45deg. But it's not, that's just where it rested in the "servo arc". The arm isn't very long (reversed ball does pass servo head, barely).

Position of servo was one thing the book got right, pitch horn is up, so it's arm swings down (to best straight reach the mixer plate ball & slide it). The elevator output horn is down, so it's arm swings upwards (to best straight reach the elevator ball lever).

Of course the shorter the servo arm, the more "arc" action happens. My Bluebird 380 (HS81 spec) seem to copy the HS81 size arm size as I used the book to the mm for those two pitch arms, popped the arms on the balls reversed on the servo arms, then attached servo arm best way I could get the maximum no-bind motion to slide mixer plate (pitch) and forward/back heli (elevator), paying most attention to the mixer plate & the underside of the swash plate.

What TX? Mine is 6CH heli, so I left off the tail linkage on the mixer (I have pitch curve/revo mix) and I use HH gyro. If you have HH gyro you could leave it off. But with 4CH, then you attach CH3 to pitch servo (I believe) with Y harness so pitch increases with throttle.

Mark
CP2-HDX300, 3DPro-HDX300, Shogun SE V2, Belt CP, Eco-8

12-29-2006 Over year old.

tryan02

rrProfessor - Location: Canton, Missouri -

deleted

deleted

12-29-2006 Over year old.

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tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

deleted

deleted

12-29-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

ok decreases pitch with throttle

increased pitch when mixer plate moves toward shaft. I really am a dimbulb So now Im gonna chase a little white ball around with a stick.

pasture pool a.k.a. golf

12-29-2006 Over year old.

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tryan02
rrProfessor
Location: Canton, Missouri

no i was right

What a nightmare just when I thought i was finished the servo is moving the plate the wrong direction the servo arm moves to the front of the heli. giving the blades a negative pitch instead of positive I guess Ill just learn to hover inverted.

12-29-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco-8 BL Build, mech mixing, done

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