RunRyder - This isn't safe!!!

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Safety - RC Helis are not toys > This isn't safe!!!

UH-60PILOT
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Florida

Just happen to see this guys gallery and don't mean to make an example out of him but look at the last picture in his gallery.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/24771/

Here in Korea where I currently live a pilot lost control of his helicopter and killed a little girl about two years ago while performing a demonstration in a schoolyard just like this guy is doing in the picture. This guy is obviously an expert pilot but he is not using expert judgment. If you are going to put on a flying demonstration please make sure you have the proper distance from the crowd and preferably have a protective barrier between the crowd and your aircraft. Accidents like this are so avoidable. If we don't use good judgment when operating our aircraft then we are a public menace and therefore put ourselves and the future of our hobby at risk. I think this is a dead horse that needs to be kicked forever just for the benefit of the new guys who have not been exposed to the possibility but who probably will. For all of us old guys we need to make sure we police this kind of stuff up by teaching the safety responsibility part of the hobby to the new guys we are directly influencing. Think about it.

Kenny Thompson

12-16-2006 Over year old.

MikeC
Key Veteran
Location: Wausau, WI

That does look pretty damn stupid to me! It makes about as much sense as the idiots in Europe who stand in the middle of the road to get pictures during a rally and get clobbered by the car! Definitely Darwinism at work!

Mike

Century Swift, Gaui 200, Blade MCX, Hirobo Sky Robo, Spektrum DX7

12-16-2006 Over year old.

Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Personally, I wouldn't be flying that close to people, however, why publicly call a guy out like that? What ever happened to contacting someone privately when you have a problem with them? Are you just hoping that he happens upon the thread where you are calling him an idiot, or are you hoping that that everyone piles on and trashes him while he goes about his merry little way?

If you wanted to call public attention to a safety situation, you could have left the guy out of it, and just posted the picture directly to the thread.

Nick Crego
Still wanted by the government, I survive as a soldier of fortune.

12-16-2006 Over year old.

spritefiend
Key Veteran
Location: Camarillo, CA

^ couldnt agree more!

not even to mention, this has been discussed before.

John.

12-16-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

spruce
Senior Heliman
Location: toledo, oh

I say its his heli he can do what he wants with it, if he kills someone its his problem not yours.

you have nothing better to do than look through gallerys and post BS about it ?

12-16-2006 Over year old.

BJames111
Elite Veteran
Location: Billings, Montana

everyone's idea about what qualifies as safe or unsafe is a little different. I know I can't tell how many feet he is away from the crowd, can you?

Brian James
Miniature Aircraft Fury Extreme
G-Force Heli
Elevated R/C

12-16-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

stickyfox
Key Veteran
Location: Troy, NY, US

Quote
I know I can't tell how many feet he is away from the crowd, can you?

Are you kidding? He's safe on the other side of that chain-link fence! Same place I'd be!

IMO this is a really dangerous situation, and pretty unnecessarily so since most kids have no idea how skilled the pilot has to be to do it. They'd be just as happy to see a few flips and tictocs. I'm a long way from hub scrapes, but I've been told by people who can do it that you can never guarantee it won't fail violently. Even the pros can't foresee random gusts of wind or know the chance that a piece of garbage (or perhaps a poorly-attached pennant) will drift down and get jammed in something.

It's one thing to do this at a flying event where the crowd is attending voluntarily, are aware of the risks, and are kept a safe distance from the demonstration. None are true of this photo, I'd wager. I've never seen this maneuver photographed from behind the aircraft before. Who knows, there could be another line of spectators behind the camera.

That said, it's a lot easier to sit here in my bathrobe and point out mistakes and bad judgment than it is to keep one's discipline in an environment with a lot of cheering spectators and competitive peers. This happened, and unless you were there, you don't know any more about the story than what you can see from the photo. The solution is not to bash the guy who put it up in his gallery, nor is it to contact him privately and have it removed. For one, there's nothing evil about the photograph. And second, if he takes it down silently someone else will eventually post one just like it.

As long as it doesn't involve words like "retard" or "moron," a constructive analysis of this event will turn this into a valuable experience for all of us.

I have to disagree with spruce's statement that it's "his problem and not yours," though. It will take only one or two elementary school massacres before the AMA's insurance company tells them to go find somebody else to finance their murder campaigns. We clearly do have an obligation to keep ourselves and our buddies in check.

-fox

12-16-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Bad Karma
Veteran
Location: UK

^^ Agreed,

These things have enough that can go wrong without warning, even the best most detailed pre-flight ever cant guarantee that something isnt going to fail once its up in the air, then there is problems with RFI, you cant preflight for that.

I wonder how many people there had mobiles etc, if he was using a synthesised TX module thats a big risk right there.

It can and does happen where the pilot could do everything by the book and then some, and still something beyond his control happens, eg a servo going bad all of a sudden or a gyro or a reciever, they tend to either work or not work rather than giving you a warning, so pre-flights with regards to electronics are nearly useless for predicting a failure.

We really dont need the attitude of 'its not my problem, its his'

Thats such a self centred attitude, its not just his problem, its also a problem for the person who got killed, and their family and all of ours.

BTW that isnt the worst pictures on the RR user galleries either.

12-16-2006 Over year old.

midwestpilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

there is no safe distance...

here in the states we have model air shows all the time.. and the crowd can easily be hit by heli's and airplanes out of control...

These craft can fly to far to be considered safe to watch.
Sure your risks increase with standing right next to a heli.. but a heli could easily go 50-100 yards on its own in any direction the same is true with planes.

A net would be the best solution to safety.. but I have only see them in use in indoor shows.

I am not saying that the picture is safe... but look at your own flying sites and think if a craft when out of control into a crowd

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175

12-16-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

UH-60PILOT
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Florida

Wow! Typical, you guys totally missed the point. Allow me to defend myself.

Spruce: I didn't go looking through the galleries to find this picture, it was one of the ones that shows up randomly in the upper right corner of each page and it caught my eye. Yes, you are right, it is his helicopter and he can do what he wants to with it just like it was the DC sniper's rifle and he did what he wanted with it and that didn't seem to cause any problems what so ever for people who own guns. If you think that this isn't or can't be an international responsibility/problem then you have a very short sighted view of the way things can go down. You think 911 only caused security changes in the US. Wait and see what happens if an RC aircraft is involved in a terrorist attack. We may never fly them again. I think you are way off key by thinking that another modeler's lack of responsibility isn't a possible problem for all of us. By the way, any chance you are the guy in the picture?

Spritefriend: You're any easy one. I know this has been discussed before and that is why I included the following sentence: "I think this is a dead horse that needs to be kicked forever just for the benefit of the new guys who have not been exposed to the possibility but who probably will." I'm a military helicopter pilot. I have been shown the same mistakes over and over again for the last 20 years and it is so redundant but the new guys haven't had the benefit of seeing it so I keep my mouth shut or I support what is being said again. The safety practices of my profession are written in blood but happened out of necessity. The same doesn't hold true for our models because they aren't a necessity and that is the fundamental reason we must be self driven and self appointed stewards and ambassadors of high standards of safety in our hobby.

Eurylokhos: I never called him out in public. I never stated his name. I never said he was an idiot and I never called him anything. I did say; "This guy is obviously an expert pilot but he is not using expert judgment". and I don't see how that is perceived by you as a malicious statement.

My computer skills are not good enough to post a picture from a gallery into a thread I'm writing (sue me, I'm old school and I hate computers with a purple passion) but I don't think my lack of computer skills will get anyone killed and poor as they are I might actually educate someone. My intent was never to make anyone mad. I'm sorry that is the response from you and therefore I have failed. I suck so bad for trying to make the hobby safer and I hope you can pick up where I screwed up and fix it.

Actually, I wasn't expecting or hoping for any responses to this thread much less obligating a bunch of people to pile in on top of this guy and trash him. Sorry if you guys are getting side tracked by your own animosity towards me but I was very sincere and hopeful that many would see the dire threat that this poses firstly to innocent people and secondly to our great hobby. Maybe I should write the guy directly but I wasn't starting this thread to correct one guy. That's not the point and what happened in this picture is an example but it is also history. I was doing it to try and educate the masses so it doesn't happen more often. I was alarmed when I saw it and my intent was to educate not belittle. So, try to see it for what it is and try not to spin things into it that are not there... And I reiterate, Think about it.

Thanks for the replies guys and I hope we can all be friends if we run into each other at any events. That includes the guy in the picture because I'm sure he's probably a great guy to watch fly and for sure he's way better than my sorry a$$.

Kenny Thompson

12-16-2006 Over year old.

UH-60PILOT
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Florida

Midwestpilot, you are right there is no safe distance but it doesn't help when the naive spectators are sitting down with a barrier behind them blocking any retreat from a crashing model. At least if they were standing up they could try to dodge a crashing aircraft. Once again this falls back on the pilot. If someone walks up to your helicopter while you are hovering it is your responsibility to land to protect the naive spectator. For some reason people do not inherently have any respect for how dangerous our models are. I think they look at them as toys and therefor we as the operators can't allow a situation to unfold where we become negligent. We must maintain active control of the situation because in most cases the observer will be completely passive on behalf of their own safety.

Nets is a great thing at a flying site. I saw a lot of that in Germany and the Germans are very safe when it comes to the spectator.

Kenny Thompson

12-16-2006 Over year old.

tim deakin
Veteran
Location: gloucestershire uk

Quote
I say its his heli he can do what he wants with it, if he kills someone its his problem not yours.

WHAT AN ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS THING TO SAY!!!!!!!!!!
You should be ashamed!!!!!!!
Spruce you are an idot! UH-60 pilot You are completely rite to name and shame the idiot flying at that school.
In the UK it is illegal to break health and safety laws and i certainly would report that if it happened over hear.

Its up to the individual flying to decide whats safe and whats not and to act in an appropriate manner not to recklessly endanger or harm any indavidual.

12-16-2006 Over year old.

HHawk
Veteran
Location: Gardnerville Nv.

The thing that gets me is that alot of guys like to call names and say malicious things! That doesnt solve anything! I dont think anyone has the right to call someone an idiot or take away their right to fly whatever they want. That aside, I believe someone should contact the event holder and the pilot in the demonstration and ask them to put up some kind of barrier next time! Come on people, act like adults, not a bunch of NAZIZ out to LINCH someone. We all make mistakes in judgment.
Mr Rotor on G3.5

12-17-2006 Over year old.

UH-60PILOT
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Florida

And once again I see that a lot of people are completely missing the point and putting words into my mouth. I'm not trying to fix this guy I was only trying to prevent the rest of us from repeating an unsafe act and I never called the guy anything except an expert pilot who is not using expert judgment. I never called anyone an idiot.

I hate to say it but this is where us Americans really have a tendency to show the world how selfish we are. In some other countries people have much stricter rules to follow and cultures that hold them back from doing and saying the wrong things. In the US we disrespect our freedom of speech and have this growing sense of anti responsibility for what we do, say and let other people do or say.

CrzHk: Thanks for the html class on how to post a picture into a thread.

tim deakin: Thanks for seeing this the way it was intended and thanks for the support. By the end of this I may be thrown out of the country and may be seeking asylum in yours. Fly safe.

Kenny Thompson

12-17-2006 Over year old.

spruce
Senior Heliman
Location: toledo, oh

the only idiot here is tim "dick"in. Its his heli if he does something "unsafe" its non of your business boy, keep your nose in your own business.

people have been killed by helis in the US and we still fly them legally. ITS non of anyones business but the pilots and spectators.

12-17-2006 Over year old.

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote
I say its his heli he can do what he wants with it, if he kills someone its his problem not yours. you have nothing better to do than look through gallerys and post BS about it ?

Therein lies the problem....

12-17-2006 Over year old.

tim deakin
Veteran
Location: gloucestershire uk

Wow, I thought common sense was common!obviously not.

Dont worry uh-60 i am completely on your side,and i think anyone with any SENCE will be as well.

And to anyone else leaving post's on this topic please ensure you read it first!assuming you can.

12-17-2006 Over year old.

UH-60PILOT
Senior Heliman
Location: Central Florida

As of when I'm writing this I see 734 views and 16 replies so maybe the people who aren't sending snide replies are actually getting what was intended from the post. That's good as far as I'm concerned. Now all we have to do is look out for the guys who are supporting a negligent attitude and some of those guys are highlighting themselves pretty well.