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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Warning from my experience about Green Zeal Gel and Gassers
 
 
Bezek
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC USA

I recently replaced the CSM tape I have used forever to attach gyros with the green Zeal Gel tape. I noticed an immediate improvement to the behavior of the gyro and rudder so I was happy. Today, after flying a tank through (3rd tank with Zeal) I noticed at the end of the flight the tail was acting a bit strange. Set her down and thought it might of been waggles due to the dry tank leaning the engin. But inspected everything anyway. When I examined the gyro this is what I found.



My gyro was working its way off the zeal tape.(the two green strips behind the gyro) The installation instructions say to use two strips although I have seen others just use one piece. I went with the instructions. I thought that maybe it didn't bond correctly to the bottom of the gyro, but when I looked, I discovered the bond between the tape backing and gel had failed. As seen below.(plastic stuff on bottom of gyro)


Here's my fix. A full piece of tape.


Has anybody expereinced a failure like this with a full piece of tape? Gassers be warned. The two strip method may lead to failure!! My gasser is pretty smooth, so I don't think it was from "excessive" vibes.

Upstate Helicam - Greenville, SC
12-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

Zeal gel

It looks as if you used the regular foam tape and the gel, too??? I'm having a hard time trying to figure out exactly what happened from the photos. The Zeal gel I've used is a homogenous, rubbery, sticky material and there's nothing to debond. Clean off the gyro mount and the bottom of the gyro thoroughly and don't use any other material besides the Zeal gel. Hope this helps. steve.
12-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

I had the same thing occur on my gasser. After being shown the wonder of Zeal tape on gyro, I chose to use it on my stabilizer. It appeared to do the same thing after the first flight. What I believe happened is that we did not completely clean all the tape remaining from the previous install. Perhaps the Zeal reacted by sluffing off a layer. I recleaned the stabilizer and reinstalled on the same Zeal tape and it has not come off since.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
12-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

the zeal stuff is good but will creep off, especially if you hang your heli nose up

always put a velcro retaining strap around your gyro

keepin' it real
12-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Bezek
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC USA

Take a good look at the Zeal Gel

Steve
Zeal gel tape is not a homogeneous material. It has a thin plastic layer that makes up a top and bottom membrane. When you remove the white backing paper it reveals this plastic membrane that actually forms the bond. I thoroughly clean the frame and the bottom of the gyro before applying any kind of tape. In fact I use a solvent like "Goof Off" to do it. The problem was the installation instructions that led me to use the two strips rather than a whole peice. Picture one shows the position of the gyro when I discovered the problem. Picture two shows the plastic membrane that failed on the gel side as it creeped off. It is firm to the gyro, but was releasing from the gel. The third picture shows my current installation using a full piece of gel. I don't see how it can creep with this installation.

Upstate Helicam - Greenville, SC
12-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
garyl
Senior Heliman
Location: taxachussetts

The gyro instructions realy mean use two layers of tape. Not two seperate peices like you had. The two layers helps to isolate any vibrations better.
12-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Knowing what I know about adhesives there is no way I will rely solely on the tack from the adhesive. I use silicone foam rubber (no adhesive) as the shock absorber and mechanically hold the gyro with a tye wrap. This way nothing changes as the adhesive dries out or the bond breaks down because of ozone or something else attaching the adhesive over time.

Ace
What could be more fun?
12-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
aarinsingh
Veteran
Location: Thompson, MB

If you clean off the previous layer of gyro tape, with some products, I use Goo-Gone, it is great at removing all the old stickum left over, but will leave a oily residue, I give it a wipe with rubbing alchol before I put new tape on. Is all good, but I have never used that green type of tape either.
12-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Ace, that tiewrap can cause you problems as it will transmit vibs to the gyro casing especially on a gasser.

CSM in their gyro installation instructions tell you to leave 50mm of free length of the gyro wiring before securing it to the airframe as even this can transmit vibrations to the gyro.

I too have never used the green gel. I must try it sometime although I am happy with the CSM steel plate mounting for now.

Paul.
12-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

Paul

You'll love the Zeal tape once you've tried it. When installed properly, it is amazing how much better it makes the gyro perform. I now use it in place of servo tape every where it will fit. It's not particularly cheap but the electronics have to love it.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
12-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Christopher J
Key Veteran
Location: Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

I don't use it on gyros but I do use it to hold Robbe Heli Command units in place. I've not had one let go yet.

I don't even want to think about what would happen if it did considering the HC controls the heli.

Christopher J
East Coast Vario Field Rep
"I'm all set"
12-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
CSM in their gyro installation instructions tell you to leave 50mm of free length of the gyro wiring before securing it to the airframe as even this can transmit vibrations to the gyro.

Paul,
What makes you think foam tape, zeal gel or anything that touches the gyro will not induce vibrations? The tye-wrap is placed north / south (inline with the tail) any vibration in that direction means nothing to the gyro. The gyro is free to rock in the other direction but dampened by the foam rubber. The amount of rock is controlled by thickness or the rubber, derometer, and how tight you clamp the gyro with the tye-wrap. Once you get it right it doesn't change. Not true of any other sticky tape mounting which is always in a state of change and affected by moisture.

Ace
What could be more fun?
12-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FCM
Elite Veteran
Location: Back in Blighty!

Quote 
What makes you think foam tape, zeal gel or anything that touches the gyro will not induce vibrations?

Nothing Ace, the fact is everything that touches the gyro casing induces vibrations. All we can do is ensure that the things that do contact the gyro are nice and soft with vibration reducing properties - tie wraps are made from hard nylon and do not fit into this category.

Quote 
The tye-wrap is placed north / south (inline with the tail) any vibration in that direction means nothing to the gyro

I like your thinking on this but the vibs that the gyro picks up can be from any source of vibration and once the gyro housing is being vibrated by whatever means, it can induce lateral vibs into the sensor leading to the normal tail bumping/creeping that we hear about so often on gassers.

Paul.
12-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
toejab
Senior Heliman
Location: NEW YORK

green zeal

it doesn't appear that what i am posting here is what happened in this case, but what aainsingh has to say was exactly my first thought. GOOF-OFF and similar products do leave an oily film behind. i always ues acetone to clean all surfaces prior to mounting. of course you have to be carefull to use it sparingly and dry it quickly by blowing on it to make it evaporate quickly,as acetone eats plastic if left in contact too long.... the results are a VERY clean and oil-free surface that can't be beat. hope this helps.
12-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Bezek
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC USA

four tanks an all is good

I now have four tanks through with the full peice of tape and there is no sign of any movement or creeping.
I usually clean with goof off and then again with windex to remove any oils left. It gets things sqeaky clean. I always use a paper towel and dry off at each step.

Upstate Helicam - Greenville, SC
12-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
I like your thinking on this but the vibs that the gyro picks up can be from any source of vibration and once the gyro housing is being vibrated by whatever means, it can induce lateral vibs into the sensor leading to the normal tail bumping/creeping that we hear about so often on gassers.


I can't prove or disprove what you say here. I will reiterate what I said before, "once you get it right it doesn't change." With an adhesive based system it will change over time. And certainly with any hydro gel the durometer will change with the absorption of moisture.

Ace
What could be more fun?
12-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
lperagallo
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, Indiana, USA

Ace, you always seem to have an answer on everything. North / South vibration doesn't effect the Gyro?? Where did you come up with that one?? Vibration is vibration. Vibration makes the Gyro shake....shake makes it invoke correction. Shake from vibration and not a change in yaw will make your stability of the tail impossible. Maybe you need some practical experience before you come up with some of your outrageous statements. I have used green zeal tape on my Gasser from day one. My maiden voyage with my Bergen using a 401 and the supplied tape had my tail jumping all over the place. It was immediately replaced with green zeal and I have flown all summer and fall and now into winter with the same tape with a rock solid tail.

Gassers benefit from a single piece of tape applied to a clean surface. Anything else just doesn't perform as well.
12-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

Gyro mounting

I've also had very good luck with the Zeal gel, but any adhesive will change with time. If you don't have some secondary means of restraint, you'll probably get a chance one day to fly your heli with the gyro flailing around loose and the tail wagging all over the place. Whether a zip tie or a velcro strap, any connection to the rest of the heli will be expected to transfer some vibration to the gyro. I just accept the fact that the gyro may not be working quite as well as if I didn't strap it down and prefer the peace of mind I get from having a strap. To each his own. steve.
12-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Excalibur
Veteran
Location: Destination: Earth

Hmmmm. . .

What about using a "square" piece of Zeal Gel on the top of the gyro, then use one or two tie wraps across the top and down to the frame for extra security. That would keep the tie wraps from touching the gyro directly. Just a thought. . .

Xcal

Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
12-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
steve9534
Key Veteran
Location: yakima, wa.

Excalibur

I'd not thought of doing that, but sounds like a good idea to me. steve
12-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Warning from my experience about Green Zeal Gel and Gassers
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