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Gyro Hobbies . E-flite . Next D

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Airtronics Stylus Tips & Tricks
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

I use a Stylus and two RD 8000's on electrics all the time and have no issues with the ESC arming. There's something else wrong.

TM

Buying tools is half of the equation, knowing how to use them is the other. - T Moore
11-09-2006 Over year old.
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FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Terry, if a JR8103 tx and an R700 rx operated the ESC just fine, where else would you look? Two different Sytlus tx's on two different channels and 4 different PCM and FM rx's have failed to operate the ESC. A standard servo plugged into the throttle channel on any combination of Stylus & ATX rx's works properly, including trim.

Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-09-2006 Over year old.
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TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

I'm guessing the throttle trim is all the way back when you try to arm the ESC, is that right?

I would look in the Trim-M section of the radio and make sure that the throttle trim is working normally. I would make sure that the Flight mode Normal throttle setup is set to 0,25,50,75,100 for all 5 points and then go through the ESC setup and see if the ESC will calibrate.

TM

Buying tools is half of the equation, knowing how to use them is the other. - T Moore
11-09-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

You could connect a servo to one of the tx/rx combos which is arming the ESC. Note very carefully the end point positions of the servo and which direction it travels as you move the stick up.

Now, connect that same servo to the ATX rx and adjust the tx as necessary to match what was observed above. At that point, there would be no logical reason why the ATX would not also arm the ESC.

- John

MSH Protos
11-09-2006 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. FlynHeli is a neighbor and friend and that ESC was on one of those Stryker styrofoam elevon (ailerator?) jets. Still no solution. He's gonna fly it with another tx until we solve this interesting puzzle.

We'll try those suggestions next.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-09-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

well tried a 8103 with my Airtronics RX it worked, so it is a setting in the radio, BUT WHAT!!! I've gone mad.

Flynheli




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Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-09-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

FlynHeli spoke on the phone with the folks at E-Flite.

Turns out this is a known issue with this particular E-Flite ESC ('Pro' 25 amp) when used with some Airtronics tx's. Go figger.

Their tech said something about a 'pulse signature'? That ring any bells??

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> Their tech said something about a 'pulse signature'?

Wow, I have never heard of that issue with the Stylus. In all my work on the bench with the Stylus, there was absolutely nothing different or odd about the throttle channel pulses. That is a strange comment.

I would love to get that ESC on my bench.

- John

MSH Protos
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Have you ever heard the term 'pulse signature' before??

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> Have you ever heard the term 'pulse signature' before?

Well, it's a big part of the IPD and I think Berg sales pitch. Probably the most notable example of a pulse signature that causes problems is the 9Z with a synth module not working with certain FM receivers. In first order terms, a "pulse signature" could be characterized by the number of channels and the frame time.

But that's all about BEFORE the pulses on the channels out of the receiver. At the channel outputs on the receiver it just a pulse with a certain width and time interval between pulses. There are also the electrical characteristics of the receiver's outputs themselves (such as impedance), but I can't imagine the ATX rx's having that issue with only one ESC. They seem to make there stuff have pretty healthy outputs.

If one wanted to characterize the "pulse signature" of rx at the outputs, it could be which channels have simultaneous outputs, order of channel outputs, and the frame time. But the issue of simultaneous pulses only plays into devices which use more than channel. Obviously an ESC only uses one channel.

Anyways, I do find it extremely odd that this one ESC has an issue only with ATX. That just doesn't make a lot of sense. I wish I had one of those ESCs to test.

- John

MSH Protos
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I Talked with the rep at hobbytown USA not on the phone. He was showing the new spectrum and a new heli.

He said that Airtronics doesn't use the industry standard, and uses a different pulse for sending the single, and GimbleFan he will be at the funfly this weekend.

Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-10-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

The one thing we didn't try was the Stylus with a non-ATX rx. I'll pull an Electron6 out of one of my planks and give it a squirt.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> doesn't use the industry standard

Hehe, that's a funny statement because no one does. There is some long forgotten "standard" that Mr. Drew of XtremeLink likes to refer to, but no one has quite stayed true to this supposed "standard."

Hmm, the one thing I see in some of my numbers is that the Stylus actually has a bit of a longer time between frames (~24 ms) in PPM mode than other radios. With a PCM rx, it is less time between frames (~14 ms). Maybe that's the issue. The ESC may have input filtering which only excepts pulses which occur between a min and max interval. While all the various radios have differences, they just didn't feel like accommodating or simply forgot about the Stylus.

> I'll pull an Electron6 out of one of my planks and give it a squirt.

That will be interesting. If its the pulse interval than it won't act any differently.

- John

MSH Protos
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Oh yes before I forget they only test with JR and Futaba, but because of this issue they are going to start testing with Airtronics. He also told me to call in and they would exchange the reciver for a 40 AMP ESC. I might be willing to mail the esc to you for you to test???

Do you see smoke?

flynheli





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Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-10-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> Oh yes before I forget they only test with JR and Futaba

Well there you go.

> I might be willing to mail the esc to you for you to test???

No need now; I'm pretty sure we found the smoking gun. (Reread my previous post, I did some editing while you posted. Sorry.)

- John

MSH Protos
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I guess it all come down to this.

we just built up pete's thred, and made it look really big.

Flynheli

Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-10-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> I guess it all come down to this.
> we just built up pete's thred, and made it look really big

Well, yeah. But, more importantly, we have identified a product which does not appear to work with the Stylus.

- John

MSH Protos
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Quote 
we just built up pete's thred,
Thread-building is all fine an' dandy -- but solving puzzles iz da fashnizzle, yo.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
11-10-2006 Over year old.
 
 
XPS
Senior Heliman
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ USA

I found a technical document that was written in the 70's about the PPM format. It states that there is a 300us pulse width for the start pulse, followed by pulse representing the duration of the stick's movement using a min/max range of 750us to 2250us. The entire frame length was 20.00ms. There were only specifications for 6 channels at the time, although "future expansion" allowed up to 8 channels, which seemed an impossible need at the time.

Royal, Kraft, and ACE all adopted this standard.

Jim Drew, CEO/President - Xtreme Power Systems
11-11-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FlynHeli
Senior Heliman
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Heres is a link to the manual can you take a look.



http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInf...1025_manual.pdf


Flynheli





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Money conquers patience, If you have money you don't have to wait!
11-11-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Airtronics Stylus Tips & Tricks
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