RunRyder - Hornet II tail setup.....

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e-MS Composit Hornet > Hornet II tail setup.....

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Guys,

I'm curious whether I've done something wrong here. I have very little vibrations if any and am using DUZI tail servo mounts. The servo is placed just south of my GY240 and I've set the tail servo arm 90 degrees to the servo body. I then placed the servo so my tail blades are at zero pitch as best as I could.

When I spooled up, the nose rotates counter clockwise. I then decided to slide the servo forward (adding right pitch to the blades) to find the sweet spot. It holds the nose fine under low head speed but at an increased head speed the nose rotates left once again.

I've set a very mild pitch curve for openers (just to be safe) and wondering if this is part of my problem? I haven't flipped the AVCS switch to ON yet because I'm simply trying to find the neutral zone as per the GY240 instructions.

Setup is as follows:
Hornet II
Futaba s3108 on tail boom with Duzi mounts
Twister 300/20 with metal pinion
GY240
MS116
Normal throttle curve: 0,25,40,55,100
Normal pitch curve: 50,60,73,86,100

Any help is appreciated.

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Sounds about right to me - I don't think you can expect the gyro to hold the tail the same at all head speeds in rate mode - Adjust the offset in rate mode to the head speed that you will most often be flying in and lock the servo down there - Check your slider range for binding - Then flip to AVCS mode and have fun - AVCS mode will hold headings more firmly than rate mode will.

You should put some negative pitch in your normal mode pitch curve though - Something like this maybe.. (-5°) 27,40,50,75,100 or (-3°) 37,44,50,75,100 - Keep the mid point of the curve 50 in all flight modes and the curve as linear as possible - Make all idle-up pitch curves 0,25,50,75,100.

Your normal mode throttle curve is fine - You'll probably want your idle-up1 to be something like 100,90,85,90,100 and your idle-up2 the same or balls-out 100,100,100,100,100.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

> Normal throttle curve: 0,25,40,55,100
> Normal pitch curve: 50,60,73,86,100

I agree, the pitch curve is strange and may give odd tail holding. Always use 0 degrees at mid stick (50%).
Normal throttle curve: 0,35,50,65,80
Normal pitch curve: 0, 30, 50, 75, 100

10-17-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Probably not comfortable with full 10° negative pitch in normal mode - That can be a fast and sloppy drop with the decreasing power - I don't think I have full -10° in my normal mode pitch curve either.

Having only 3-5° negative pitch in normal mode gives the whole step range of the lower half stick deflection for just that 3-5° of pitch making it far less sensitive and easier to land gently - Above mid range and in idle-ups it's good to have it completely linear from -10°(0) or 0°(50) to +10°(100) though.

So I still recommend (-5°) 27,40,50,75,100 or (-3°) 37,44,50,75,100 for the normal mode pitch curve depending on preference.

Sorry to contradict you DH.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Thanks guys

I honestly didn't plan to really use this VERY subtle pitch curve. I simply wanted to ease the first couple of test flights in the event I had and problems (glitching, trim, etc)

-3 in normal model sounds about perfect. I really don't see a need for -10 in normal mode. I'll save the -10 for my crazy inverts exits in idle 1

I'm still a little confused on the tail blade/grip setup. It seems that the pitch slider should be in the middle of it's travel on the output shaft when the tail blades are at their nominal pitch to hold the nose straight (depending head speed, so I've learned), yes?

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

The actual position of the slider on the shaft at offset isn't really important as long as there is room to either side for the neccessary blade deflections - It usually doesn't look like much room between the slider and tail box 1-2mm maybe and is really all it needs - Just turn the limit down so the slider doesn't bind against the tail box - Main rotor torque will be assisting in the other direction so at 0° tail blade pitch the heli will already be yawing to the right so not as much actual blade deflection is needed in that direction.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

I've just realized that I don't think it's possible to alter the tail blade pitch to that of where the slider is situated neutrally on the output shaft.

I'll have to play it some it seems. I'm finding the DUZI tail fin restrictive. Have either you used the DUZI tail fin?

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

DarkHorse1
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucester UK

You can shift blade pitch depending where you lock the tail hub down on the output shaft. Out on the end should be fine.

Edit: I'm talking stock parts, sorry.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I use the whole mH tail set so the fin doesn't get in the way of the arm and also gives nice 90° orthagonal angles to work with.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

The tail hub came premounted on the end of the output shaft and the output shaft is pretty much sitting flush with the bearing at the other end. I should have plenty of room but it seems the DUZI fin is restrictive.

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Cap, do you mean the MicroHeli tail set?

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

Maybe modify or relocate or replace the Duzi fin then if it's really in the way.

Yes I mean the mH (microHeli) tail set - I like it - I just destroyed my tail box in a nasty crash recently so need to replace it - I hit Duzi up to make something similar to their Trex tail set for the Hornet but don't know when or if that will happen - I'm thinking of trying the mH box and the HDX300 rotor and slider.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Interesting.

You didn't happen to ask him about developing new 120 degree servo mount that allows the servos to lay flat instead of upright

Therefore allowing for correct 90 degreed geometery. This seems like it wouldn't be too hard to develop.

I haven't talked to him in awhile. Maybe I should ping him, he may be inclined to create a set for us.

p.s. What is the HDX slider?

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

That would be a nice alternative to the expensive revolution frame.

The HDX tail is similar to the Duzi Trex tail but smaller for 300 size helis like the BCP (and Hornet etc) - The box is for belt drive - But it would probably work with the mH shaft drive box though.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Excuse the ignorance but is MDX300 a chopper that includes these upgrades or is MDX300 the name of that part or is MDX a vendor like DUZI?

Edit: I meant HDX

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

I shoulda linked the pics..

The HDX is a belt drive kit and/or upgrade for the BCP offered by Heli Direct.
You can get it as a kit or the separate components are scattered across their website.

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Cool, is that a modified Hornet at the bottom of the page on the second link??

Raz

10-17-2006 Over year old.

Micro-Maniac
Elite Veteran
Location: Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

No that's the whole HDX kit and/or Blade CP belt upgrade - I actually like the whole design of it all - I've been considering the kit but I'm really not in the market for a new heli right now.

But if 4 of these tail parts will all work together on the Hornet I think that would be a pretty nice setup.. (pics are linked btw)