RunRyder - Use ESC in Gov. Mode ?

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e-JR Voyager E > Use ESC in Gov. Mode ?

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Would wonder how many of you (and why) use ESC in Gov. Mode ?

Right now I do not, not only I am beginner still, but probably also the flight-time goes down as it always has high headspeed, is that so ?

Furthermore I would wonder if the throttle in gov. is always a straight line, or is it possible different (e.g. still higher power for big positive or neg pitch) ? I assume setting always 100% would burst it almost at 0 pitch, whereas when having 80% all time, then I miss out the power in full pos and neg pitch ?

Thanks so much !

07-13-2006 Over year old.

Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

The Gov mode isn't a bad thing and in some cases can actually increase (slightly) the flight times. Think of it like a car with cruise control and only one high gear...in order to get the car rolling to it's ideal speed you have to use a LOT more throttle than you do to keep it at that speed once reached.

The ideal with the electrics is to match the pinion, motor KV and overall gear ratio to get the ideal headspeed with near 100% throttle. This lets the motor draw less amperage to maintain the desired headspeed. A gov mode typically is going to maintain a particular motor speed which in turn results in a specific headspeed, so if everything is matched up right the motor runs at the higher (more efficient) end of its range and only has to increase current draw to cover increased blade loading as you change pitch or move the cyclic. Many folks tune to a throttle value a little less than 100% (85-95% is what I've most often seen) to leave a little "headroom" for increased current to maintain the headspeed desired while others just run a flat 100% curve line.

Once again, it's just my two cents worth, but it's worked very well for me.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

07-13-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Thanks a lot again for the answer, what actually happens, when I still have a throttle curve programmed ? And also I assume, that for 0% throttle also the motor will not start, even set for example 95% flat or do I have to use Idle-up for that flat, but start with ascending curve in Normal mode ?

07-14-2006 Over year old.

Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

You start with an ascending curve in Normal then switch to Idle Up where you have programmed a flat (or nearly so) line.

As for the existing curves, you need them to tell the ESC what you want to maintain. What I have seen with the ESC/GOV's that I have used is that the gov maintains the motor speed associated with the curve. Say you have a 70% value at mid stick...the esc will try and maintain that until you move the stick up or down giving it a new reference value. This is why most folks use a flat line in the Idle Up...it gives them a nearly constant headspeed all the time.

Hope that makes a little sense

,

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

07-14-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Hi, makes very much sense really - I think I got it now with this gov. mode. When I study the manual, then there is different settings for the ESC, LOW/MED/HIGH - and of course they don't tell what to choose, because I assume that depends on the heli/pinion etc. So I am using 17T, wihc is standard in the brushless kit (NHA-300BL), did you have a similar set-up and what mode did you choose ? Thanks a lot again !

07-16-2006 Over year old.

Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

Hi Xircom,

Unfortunately, I have never seen the JR brushless setup used on the VE so I can't really help on the Low, Med, High setting. You might take a look on the Castle Creations website for the instructions associated with their CC35 esc and it's Gov mode. I know it has a high and low gov setting so perhaps the instruction there will carry over to the JR esc.

I ran my VE with a C40-8L Hacker motor, a 3s LiPO pack, and a 17t pinion and got a headspeed of almost 2000 rpms without load. At that speed the VE performs very nicely.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

07-17-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Hi Ralph,

Thanks much again for the hint, today I first tried the 'Low', which was far too slow, then the 'high', which scrapped the (first) main gear completely, it was just gearing up so fast ! So I spent the day basically running to the shop to get a new one, then quite complicated operation, as that gear is not the easiest part to replace.

On the other hand, I bought a 'headspeed'-meter as well, so next time I will measure, probably it's good to start with the 'med' setting having a slow ascending curve, before switching to ST-1 set at 80% or so, let's see.

I am actually not sure, if the ESC is CC, because the programming works differently, it's done with sounds, throttle 'up' takes you automatically into programming mode walking through the settings, once you hear the tone of the desired setting, you push the throttle 'low', then it's programmed (confirm with beep). Then battery di/reconnect. That procedure sounds more like Hacker ESC, on the other hand

X-30, yes it looks like it, but X-30 does not have Gov. also the jap. manual says 9V for 3 cells - not 7.8 as in the hacker maunual

Then it's maybe the master-30, but this also doesn't have Gov. function ... see http://www.hackerbrushless.com/master-controllers.shtml

07-17-2006 Over year old.

Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post....I don't think it's a Castle esc relabeled, but I thought that the Castle instructions would provide some insight on the use of the High, Med, Low function of the gov.

It sounds like the esc doesn't have a soft start function, which is why you're tearing up gears. The easiest way to avoid the sudden start issue is to set a throttle curve in normal that "ramps up" very slowly. For example...0%-15%-60%-85%-100%. This allows the head to spool up slow at the low end of the range where the motor torque is most likely to strip a gear, then accelerate to a flyable rpm once it's started turning OK.

On mine I used 0-15-75-95-95 in Normal and then once spooled I switched to Idle Up which was 95 at all points. Idle Up was where I did all my flying and Normal was for spool up and shut down only.

Hope that helps,

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

07-17-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Hi, no problem. Now after some time scanning through many ESC, I have found the one which represents the Voayger E BL set (NHA-300BL): It's the X-Pro (http://www.hacker-motor.com/controller/update/xpro.html and click manual). So we have the options :

Brake: Off
Battery type (ESC with BEC): 3S Li-Poly (ca. 8,7V)
Under voltage: Reduce power
Acceleration : Low
Timing: Auto
Frequency: 8KHz
Active RPM-Control (Helimode / Governormode): Off

And as for the Gov mode (last setting) we have the Options (below 2 pole, which I think I have) :

rpm control: Off _._ _._ _._ _._ _._
up to 20 000 electrical RPM: _.._ _.._ _.._ _.._ _.._
up to 50 000 electrical RPM: _…_ _…_ _…_ _…_ _…_
above 50 000 electrical RPM: _…._ _…._ _…._ _…._ _…._

So now it depends on the gear transmission ratio to get to 2000 rpm headspeed, unfortunately I don't have the patience to count the teeth of all 4 wheels, but when I measure radius :

1. (17 tooth, T17) r ~ 0.7 cm
2. (1st gear) r ~ 3 cm
3. (1st gear) r ~ 0.7 cm
4. (2nd gear) r ~ 3.5 cm

So we count a ratio of

1. (T17 to gear 1) = 3/0.7 = 4.29
2. (1st gear to 2nd gear) = 3.5/0.7 = 5

So 21.43 is the ratio, and when desiring a headspeed of 2000, then we need 21,5 x 2000 = 42'857 rpm on the motor, which is middle. If we would take 'high', the we would have headspeed > 50K/21.5 = 2325, and no wonder that the gear bursts ?

Hope all this is aprox. right

07-17-2006 Over year old.

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Just small update to above, so I tried that out yesterday - in med mode, as I said slow is not powerful enough, and high scrapped my gear immediately.

First of all maybe other ESC work better, but mine had big problems in spooling up, even doing this with linear curve and very slowly, the heli did not much for long time, then almost jumped.

Finally going near 100%, it wobbled around a bit still, which means headspeed is probably still not enough.

After changing to 'gov. off' the feeling was much better again. So I guess that was it for a while with this esc, will continue to optimize throttle-pitch a bit, which seems to work actually quite well for me. Thanks a lot for the hints !

07-20-2006 Over year old.

Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

A poorly designed gov can be a real pain the the butt. If you decide to try a different esc at some point, the Kontronics Jazz series are probably the best out there in most folks opinion. The Castles with the new software are supposed to be pretty good as well.

As for the pitch and throttle curves, you can do pretty well without the gov with just a small amount of tweaking. Try and keep the throttle percentages on the higher end of the scale for the most efficient operation of both the motor and the speed control. Most of all...have fun and enjoy flying the VE...it's a pretty nice machine with just a little work.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"

07-20-2006 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Xircom
Veteran
Location: Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

Thanks a lot again for that info, actually I really plan to buy a new ESC, and yes I heard the Jazz are nice ones, I have to check what ESC they sell in the shops, but actually I fear they have other than this one. Also CC I have not seen in Japanese shops, but I have seen

- Hyperion
- GWS
- Duyalsky
- Hacker
- and some others, like 'power magic' (see https://www2.hobbynet-jp.com/overseas/index.shtml)

1) GWS and Dualsky are pretty low in Amps, so maybe Hyperion or Hacker is doing fine, any experience ?

2) What actually happens, if the new ESC Amp-rate is 'bigger than what motor/battery can handle' ? I recently really thought it could get a problem for the 3200mAH type, this is getting really hot, while the 4000 type, just warm !

3) Also considering future investments into another motor/esc or even heli, is it ok to get into 4S, rather than 3S already ? People say for high performance, 'prefer bigger V, than bigger A', but I have no idea if my brusless set (similar to hacker B40 8L, Hacker master 40) would not burn with 4S ...

Thanks a lot ! Michael

07-31-2006 Over year old.

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e-JR Voyager E > Use ESC in Gov. Mode ?

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