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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Bergen R/C Helicopters > e-Bergen Observer
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

In reference to thread http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t254902p1/, I am considering an electric conversion of an Observer EB. The Plettenberg 370-40-A2 can produce 2.5 kilowatts or about 3.35 HP
of power. The G-260 produces 1.77 kw or about 2.279 HP. The G-26 however produces this power consistently from start to finish whereas the 370-40 will start out high then taper off. I need to do some calculations to figure out if this is feasible from a lifting and duration standpoint.

With 16 ounces of fuel the G-26 power system will weigh from 4.3 to 3.3 pounds. Using 2 Evo 7400 5S lipos the 370-40 combo weighs 5.46 pounds constant. This is a 1.16 - 2.16 pound difference, part of which could be negated through elimination of the RX battery system and clutch components. Although I would probably keep the RX batteries for safety. All that is needed is a mounting plate for the motor which could be adapted to fit in the space currently occupied by the G-26, a pinion (the 370-40 max rpm is 15K so the current pinion teeth count may work plus or minus a few teeth) and some form of tray underneath the main shaft to hold the lipos.

This I believe would completely eliminate (or minimize) the powertrain as a source of vibration. What I need to know is an accurate weight of the airframe minus engine,radio and camera electronics. Also if anyone using the Maxi-Joker II could offer feedback on weights and duration they are achieving, and what lipos they are using would help in the estimation.
05-30-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

andrewp

Very interesting. I look forward to your progress.

Mark Webber
webberaerialimaging.com
Spartan RC Distributor
AIR-NRGi Batteries
05-31-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brady Longmore
Senior Heliman
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

I'm just curious why you'd want an electric Observer. What advantages are you hoping to gain? Just to eliminate vibration?
05-31-2006 Over year old.
 
 
marcuskeeler
Heliman
Location: UK

I can definitely see that an electric setup would go a long way to reducing vibration, but from a practical point of view I think that the low run times, aggravated by the huge weight of the batteries, would render it somewhat redundant as an effective workhorse.

Having had some experience with LiPo's myself, I can vouch for that fact that they can also be very dangerous things and don't take kindly to deep discharge which further reduces their usefulness in battle conditions

Sounds like an expensive but fun project nevertheless.

Marcus
05-31-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
andrewp28
Senior Heliman
Location: Toronto, Ontario - Canada

Advantages of an electric observer:
- reduced vibration
- predictably; turn it on and it goes
- noise reduced to gear whine and blades
- no smell or exhaust

I anticipate the disadvantages to be decreased payload capacity
and reduced runtimes, and of course the huge startup cost of many
large lipos.

The Observer is for business for shooting video, and I primarily need a predictable, stable mount above all. I've read post after post dealing with engine tuning and vibration. There WILL be vibration in a heli, the point is to minimize it, and by removing the variability of a relatively unbalanced single-cylinder engine that MAY need to be adjusted frequently due to weather changes, fuel quality etc. then I will spend more time flying and shooting than tuning.

The turbine is also an option, but also comes with a hefty price tag, smell of fuel, possibility of flameouts etc., but may be the ultimate vibration-free high power to weight ratio solution.

In terms of duration, I've found the key to enjoying electrics is to buy a lot of batteries. I do not charge at the field - I take a bunch of batteries that are charged at home. With the smaller electric helis I've been putting in on average 6 10-minute flights per session - that's one constant hour of flight time with a minute between flights to swap batteries. I can focus only on the flying.

I've also found that 10 minutes per flight is about all I can handle without getting tired or bored, and should be enough for getting multiple takes of most shots.

Lipos are reliable once you buy the proper charging equipment and get used to their characteristics.

What I will be doing with this Observer is continue setting it up as designed with the G-260, and if the engine proves to be a source of trouble then I will replace it with an alternate power plant. I just need to know if electric is viable for this airframe - I believe it is - however accurate weights are necessary for the calculations. My bathroom scale is not too accurate. I may also have under-estimated the mAh required, in which case the electric power weight will go up significantly.

I have nothing against gassers, I've been flying models of various kinds for over 30 years - I love engines and have a huge collection of all types. However I've been flying electric for the past 5 years and I've been rather spoiled by the convenience. I was not initially too keen to electric as runtimes were low with nicads but I could fly at the local park without anyone complaining. Lipos changed everything, twice the runtime at half the weight.
05-31-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

I'll see about getting you some accurate weights as you requested. Give me a few days to put it together, the busy season is here, (not that it ever got slow!) and free time is hard to come by....

Chris Bergen
05-31-2006 Over year old.
 
 
marcuskeeler
Heliman
Location: UK

I agree Andrew, you can't do much better when attempting to minimise 2-stroke vibration than removing the source entirely.

Good luck with it
Marcus


www.mkeeler.com
05-31-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sig Dawg
Senior Heliman
Location: Weyburn, Sask., Canada

Have a look at the Maxi Joker if you want to a large electric, it is designed to be electric so it would likley be a better option than converting an observer.

It is nice to have the front turret on the observer though.

Jason - diesel power rocks (VW TDI)
08-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > e-Bergen Observer
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