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HeliHobby . HeliProz . Ron’s HeliProz South

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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > Apex gone bad
 
 
smallplanes
Senior Heliman
Location: Timmonsville,S.C. ,USA

I have 4 apex batterys 2 2100 and 2 2200 and i only have about 15 cycles tru each one, now the bad news is there all so puffed up they look like there going to blow up. What i would like to know is why they all have gone bad this quick? Let me tell you how i have treated my batterys.

I only charge at 1 amp,i never charge when bat is hot,i only fly 8-9 mins,my head speed is around 2650,my setup is 430L align motor 35 amp esc align hs-56's 401 gyro 9650 tail servo park 6v bec and futaba pcm rx. The one thing i have not done is balanced them and yes i could see one of them maybe going bad but not all four.

O yes i charge them with a ACCU-CYCLE Elite by Hobbico. I also put temp sensor on them when i charge and they have never got over 79 degs. I flu on a new apex 2100 15c today and when i landed i check bat temp and it was only 105.5 degs is that ok or what?

Thanks for any help
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
bulldogs
Elite Veteran
Location: ~OC~ ,CA USA

SORRY to hear...

That sounds strange i could see 1 being bad but all of them say you might be doing something wrong.. What pinion are you using ? if its the 13 tooth you should only get about 6 to 7 min and less if your just hovering... SORRY man alot of money spent i sure would not fly them anymore ...

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Kill_A._Byte
Senior Heliman
Location: West New York

That seems strange . Wonder if your hot lead is grounding on your heli, or your charger is bad. One pack maybe, but 4
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
clive45
Veteran
Location: NSW Australia

How much you putting back in to the battery when charging. Shoud not be putting more than 80% ie 1760ma for 2200ma pack. if you do then you have been over discharging them and that will cause your problem. A good thing to have is a lipo alarm such as these http://www.tjtrc.com that way you protect your batterys regardles of your fling style/time or if your batterys are not as good as they were. You then will get the best from them.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
smity777
Veteran
Location: California

My first guess is something is wrong with your charger
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
robl45
Key Veteran
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

I have 2 apex 2200 packs, they appear puffy but it seems to me that it is just air trapped under the shrink wrap. Everytime after I fly they come out hot and puffy, but I let them cool and recharge them and they are fine.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Gary Hoorn
Key Veteran
Location: Annapolis Maryland USA

Quote 
Everytime after I fly they come out hot and puffy, but I let them cool and recharge them and they are fine.

I hope you are charging them outside far away from anything flammable!
Gary
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

What I've learned so far about LiPo's is that one of the most important effects of using a balancer is to prevent the very problem you're having.

If the cells aren't balanced prior to or during charging, especially repeatedly, the cells get further and further out of balance, and then -- puff -- because one cell eventually gets severely over-charged during what your charger reads as a normal charge.

Get a balancer!

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jh4db536
Senior Heliman
Location: Monterey Park, California

almost everyone i know who ran a similar batch of mk3's have them puff a little or a lot depending on what motor they used with it. my mk2's did NOT do this.

mine puff a tiny tiny bit right after the flight with my low amp 1105. i cant see it, but i can feel it when i squeeze my lipo and improves after recharging. personally i think it's cosmetic for me as i get really good flight times, it balances perfectly always, and i dont have any problems with it otherwise.

my 2 friends on the other hand use a 430L with it. that thing puffs it big time and it gets very warm too, but improves after it cools and recharges. pushing it hard during 3d we thought it was gonna blow. im not sure if in this case damage did not occur.

i have come to believe apex did not seal these things correctly or something
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

I run the 430L and 13 tooth pinion . After a six minute flight I put back about 1400 into my TP2100 packs . So , based on my figures , flying for eight or nine minutes would be over dischargeing the pack .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Hotrod69
Senior Heliman
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

I have 6 Apex 2100's that I use in my Zagi wing and my T-rex. Probably have 20 cycles on each and all are fine (no puffing). I only use a Triton charger and I limit my flights to 8 minutes using 430L and 11 tooth pinion running 100% on throttle curve with 325 pro wood blades. The charger says I used about 1600 milliamps. Charging is done at 1C. I currently do not use or have a balancer.

**** OCHC member ****
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
smallplanes
Senior Heliman
Location: Timmonsville,S.C. ,USA

I have a 430l and 11 tooth gear and i run 325 pro blades. When i recharge after a 9 min flight i only put around 1200-1600 mah back in the pack so i don't think i'm discharging to much. I'm not hovering much i hover just long enuff to get into the air and then i go into FFF and then do a few flips and land with very little hovering. As far as my charger i charge my Fromeco and my nimh batterys with it and had no problems just these Apex. I think i might try Tunder power 2100's next time but i'm not sure and yes i will get a balancer(TP 205).

Thanks for help and yes i need some more
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
NateSD
Heliman
Location: Alamogordo, NM

Smallplanes,

I have the exact same set up as you (except I'm running an HS56 for the tail), running the same head speed, and having the same problem with my LIPOs. I have one Align 1900 and one APEX 2100. Both batteries have gotten a little puffy (like the comment above about the air being trapt under the covering)within 8-10 cycles. After the battery cools, the puffyness goes down to the point it's hard to notice at all. I have always used an Align battery balance charger and have never flown the packs down to much (learned this after I bought a Super Brain 977 with Equinox ballancer). According the the 'Brain', I'm only putting back in 1400mah on both packs. This problem did not start to occur until I started flying mild 3D. I always land AS SOON as I can tell a loss in power and have always had at least 10.4 volts left. I'm starting to wonder if the heli is pulling to much current for these particular packs. Maybe I'll try a 20C pack and see how that goes. What do the rest of you think?
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
clive45
Veteran
Location: NSW Australia

Why not have a word with the APEX supplier and see if they have had a bad batch or something. They won't ask everybody to return them as it would cost too much. But they may replace them if you ask and explain your problem.
Nothing to loose
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
NateSD
Heliman
Location: Alamogordo, NM

I have contacted my supplier and he has stated he would replace mine, but since the Align pack is doing the same thing, I would rather point the finger else where. I think I will try and locate the true problem before I waste his time and puff another pack. Is anyone else on here running the SAME setup and doing okay with there packs?
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
bulldogs
Elite Veteran
Location: ~OC~ ,CA USA

I gota tell ya i have all Apex packs and love them 1 came out un ballanced but trully the best packs ive used . Our club has purchesed over 100 packs or so and no one has had this problem..

~TEAM OCHC~
A strong man stands up for himself a STRONGER man will stand up for others.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
robl45
Key Veteran
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

I just flew a pack, have the cutoff set on the align 25 amp esc I'm using. All cells are at 3.47 volts or 10.41 volts or so. I think I put about 1900 back into this 2100 pack but I read somewhere that these do more like 2200. It doesn't seem like anyone is doing anything wrong. Either its just air puffing the shrinkwrap or maybe the batterys are defective.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
gordo high
Senior Heliman
Location: down yonder in the south

robl45, 1900 Mah is too much going back in. I know it's tempting to fly a little longer, but this is what kills your packs.

I am guilty of doing this once in a while, but I really try hard not to....

Honey, I just need this one more thing and then I'm set..
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
robl45
Key Veteran
Location: Deerfield Beach, FL

Its actually about 1848 into a pack that holds about 2200, how is that too much? I just fly till it cuts out, the battery voltage doesn't go that low.
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
roboto65
Heliman
Location: Montgomery,TX

Another thing to check with the lipos that I have done when I first started and the battery never got hot during charging is to watch the voltage going in to the battery like with a 3 cell your voltage should not go above 12.4 volts no more if it even climbs to above that I have seen packs swell and not get hot in the least so keep an eye on the voltage....
05-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > Apex gone bad
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