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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Please, I need help with ECO 8
 
 
Albertotorr
Heliman
Location: Madrid - Spain

Hello,

for a long time ago i have an ECO 8 that i am not able to keep it running well, I do not know They are the curves, the controller or whatever. This is my configuration:

Motor Heli power (Ikarus)
Kontronik Starbec 50-6 -14 (helicopter program)
batteries LIPO 3S2P 4600 mA
Pinnion : 10 teeth

My questios are the following:

Is the configuration correct?
Can somebody tell me the Pitch and throttle curve for this setting, please?

Thank you

Alberto
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jrvander
Senior Heliman
Location: Mystic, CT

A little more info is needed

Alberto,

I did a search for your ESC, I can't find any info on the Starbec, can you give some more specifics on it? I'm guessing it's a brushed ESC for the Ikarus motor.
It's difficult to diagnose the problem from the info provided; What type of radio do you have? What kind of problems do you have with the Eco8? What/how many modifications or upgrade parts do you have? Most importantly, is it currently flying?

- Jon

Celery raw develops the jaw, but celery stewed is more easily chewed!
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Albertotorr
Heliman
Location: Madrid - Spain

More Info

Hello,
I am using a Futaba FF9 transmitter.
Yesterday I did some tests, and measuring the speed of the paddles on the ground y have with the stick at máx about 1570 rpm (these are the max speed I get, but i repeat, they are measured without blades).
The normal pitch curve it is -2, +5, +8,5. And the problem I get is that the helicopter hovers and goes up slowly (as they are not enough rpm), and it is very slowly climbing up. I bought the lipo batteries in order to see if it was a problem of "power" but now I am not sure if it is the motoir , the speed controller or the pinion.
i have not upgrades in the ECO 8, that is why i wanted to know if the configuration is correct.

Thanks in advance,

Alberto
05-21-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

1500 RPM is enough to get reasonable performance. Do you hear the motor slowing down as you reach max pitch? If the headspeed is not dropping then try increasing the maximum pitch. (The ECO 8 was originally designed for around 1200 to 1350 RPM but most people find that too slow now).


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
05-21-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Bill Collins
Senior Heliman
Location: Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

Without the mainblades on, your quoted headspeed is irrelevant. Put them on and then test it.
Here are some places to start.

At center stick, there should be 0 degrees of pitch.

At 3/4 stick, there should be around 6 degrees. This is usually what it takes to hover an eco. You should also be somewhere around 75% to 80% power in your curve.

At full stick you should have 9 to 11 degrees of pitch, as well as full throttle engagement.

Make sure you set the throttle hold switch setting to 0% and use it when you are testing your heli. This allows you to check pitch range, while not having the throttle engaged. Also useful when you are walking to runway and when you go to pick it up. Makes it so you don't accidently bump the throttle. Trust me, it is a good idea.

Make sure your transmitter is also set to allow full throttle. I had this problem and it drove me crazy. When in doubt, READ THE MANUAL!!!

The motor and pinion combination should be fine. You might check that the mesh is correct for the motor pinion to main gear and then the main gear to tail-drive pinion. This is another common area where power is lost if not set up correctly. As Rob_T stated, as you increase pitch, the motor should not "bog" down much. It will, if you give it full collective from 0 deg. pitch. If you are smooth with the throttle, you won't notice a drop in headspeed as you increase pitch. (This is true only IF your throttle curve is correct.) If it does bog throughout, your curve isn't right or you have too much pinion and need to go smaller.(Highly unlikely)

Another mistake is tail belt tension is too tight. Loosen it up a bit. Likely that could be the simple fix you were looking for.

Well there you go. A few things to check. Hope one/all works out for you. Also you should go to www.dream-models.com There is a plethora of info there about the eco8. Let us know your results. Bill





I'm making my way back........
05-22-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Bill Collins
Senior Heliman
Location: Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

Well?????





I'm making my way back........
05-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Albertotorr
Heliman
Location: Madrid - Spain

Eco 8

Well, I tested it yesterday, and I changed the pitch and throttle curve. it is hoovering a little bit down to the middle stick position,but if i try to climb up slowly, the heli is reacting better than before. The max. pitch it is in 9 degrees and in the middle position is around 5 degrees. The good thing is that going slowly, the system is reacting fine (in the other hand when i try a fas climbing up I see the motor can not mantain the rpm. In any case this weekend I will try to test it in better conditions.

Alberto
05-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jrvander
Senior Heliman
Location: Mystic, CT

pitch

Alberto,

It sounds like it's improved, but re-read Bill's directions above. The pitch needs to be zero at mid stick. You should strive for zero pitch from the servos outward.
Briefly,
1. Start by centering all your servos without sub-trim at mid sticks. remove all the servo horns, turn on the radio and receiver, set neutral and work from there.

2. Find servo horns that will get your linkage to sit as close to 90 degrees as possible. Right angles on all your linkages are very important for proper travel. They help with balance between servo inputs and could be a source of "bogginess" if the arc travels are too far from the 90 degree point.

3. Set the swash plate height so it's level and the washout arms are level to each other and the pinned elbow joints are at 90 degrees. This is usually around 18mm-19mm or so from the top of the frame. This will require adjsutment of the links length that go to the swash.

4. Now set the blade pitch to zero degrees using a pitch gauge. This should give you equal pitch both positive and negative, and it should be about 9-11 degrees +/-.

5. If you want more pitch, you can adjust your pitch servo throws when using ccpm mixing, either 90 or 120 in the transmitter. Watch the top of the washout hub as it travels up and down. It shouldn't bind on the bottom of the head block, but it should come close at full pitch. If you still want more pitch, do som research on Dream-models about the bell-hiller pitch modification.

Gotta get back to work now, hope this helps.

- Jon

Celery raw develops the jaw, but celery stewed is more easily chewed!
05-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jrvander
Senior Heliman
Location: Mystic, CT

zero-ing the links

Did that help at all Alberto, or did I confuse you more? Making everything aero pitch and linkages 90 degrees at neutral sticks is important for proper balance of the control inputs and how the helicopter reacts to your desired stick inputs.

- Jon

Celery raw develops the jaw, but celery stewed is more easily chewed!
05-31-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Albertotorr
Heliman
Location: Madrid - Spain

Eco 8

Hello,
of course it helped, the last weekend I went to a heli meeting, and the day was windy, so I had bad luck and I broke the main gear.
Thank you,

Alberto
05-31-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Please, I need help with ECO 8
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