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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Exploding tail on your raptors.
 
 
Grant H
Key Veteran
Location: Maryland

I was almost going to go ahead and buy that tail setup from above, untill I did some reading.

What what I gather. Most people are only using this setup on their 50,60 and 70s.

In a couple of posts, people said that the vigor tail limits the amount of pitch on the tail blades and it may not be enought pitch to compenstate for torque on a .90 sized machine.

Would a MA tail fit onto a 90SE? From what I have seen of their tails, I like them.
05-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
saitoflyer
Senior Heliman
Location: L.A. CA

would freaya tail work on this one??

is that a new heli? Oh no honey, its the same one w/different stickers.....
05-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
SPB
Elite Veteran
Location: Athens - Greece

Exactly the same thing happened to a friend of mine. The outer races came off. It was a USD 6.00 ball bearing failure that resulted in a USD 1000.00 disaster since the only parts that survived that crash were the carbon main frames and the back plate and the head of the YS 91.

I believe there must be a small ammount of defective ball bearings.


Sotiris
Sponsored by Greekrotors
myhelis.com Flying Team
05-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ScareCrow_Delta
Veteran
Location: Sebastian, FL

Top Dragon Model tail blade grips worked for me.
http://www.tdgheli.com/index.php?mod=detail&id=144

~~~~ Defy the laws of gravity....gracefully ~~~~
05-15-2006 Over year old.
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rob10000
Key Veteran
Location: Western Massachusettes

Grant H, I was keenly aware of the report of limited tail pitch travel when I swapped the tail in question from my R50 to my R90. I can honestly say it IS NOT an issue.
05-15-2006 Over year old.
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patriot21
Key Veteran
Location: Eagle Lake,MN

Welcome to the exploding Raptor Tails CLub
Lost my 90se to the ground due to that stupid pin in the tail gear...
A friend of mine machines some nice aluminum rings to go over that so that will never happen again
05-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Ticidytoc
Senior Heliman
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.

In reply to those that could not tell because of the poor picture quality.

YES, the bearings did indeed seperate. All 4 had the outer-race pull right off the inner-race. The outter-race remained in the blade grips.

There is too much force loading these bearings in a way that they are not designed to work.

Thrust bearings would carry the load put on the blade grip. It will work just the same as it does in the main grips.

I have seen in other instances where people are flying with damaged tail blades. Think of the vibration those bearings are dealing with in addition to the force of the blades pulling on the outter-race.

Here are some bearing basics.
http://www.bearings.machinedesign.com/BDEList.aspx

As for stock plastic blades. I think they are light enough that most people will not see this happen. Also the majority of people running the stock plastic blades are not running high head speeds for 3D.

Every case that I have ever heard of has been with carbon blades. I feel the worst culprit to be the TT carbon blades. 2 times to the same pilot on a R50. He no longer runs TT carbon.

I had a set new in a sealed package that were not balanced. Not to mention they are heavy. Spinnig a heavyier blade loads those bearings even more. Add the fact that the QC sucks and they are not balanced and you can see now why this happens to a poorly designed tail set up.

Use a quality tail blade like V-Blades, Youngblood, NHP and the rest. Check your tails in a preflight. I'm putting this out there to make people aware of this problem.

I dont think anyone wants to read a post where someone lost an eye or worse.

YES, it has already happened to yet another pilot with the blade and grip whipping past his head while spooling up.


Matt
05-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
saitoflyer
Senior Heliman
Location: L.A. CA

i saw this happne and really really dangerous. lets forget the fact that heli went in, thats only a minor issue. heli only costs about 1800 -2200 bucks. lets say taht this caused someone to get injured. serioulsy injured. then the whole law suit begans. he sues me, i sue TT etc. I really regret buying TT products and is insecure about flying them. I have a new rappy 90SE and is acutally scareed to fly it cuz of all the defective problems. due to this reason im only gonna buy hirobo, JR, or MA line of helis. i have align T rex as well. it also has some flaws. btw, Why is it that only stuff thats made in China have problems and the ones made in japan and US are very reliable?? TT and align is both made in China. hmmm.

is that a new heli? Oh no honey, its the same one w/different stickers.....
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: Niatirb Taerg

I've been thinking about this bearing problem this evening and have come up with solution which allows the use of our standard grips. All yer need to do is replace the outer bearing with a conical bearing which would act as both a radial and thrust bearing. The only snag is that I've never come across one
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Timken doesn't make tapered rollers this size but angular contacts would work.

My guess is that unbalanced heavy blades caused/contributed to this.

TM
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
mcoccia
Key Veteran
Location: Central Jersey

Bearings

I have been finding the TT bearings are notchy right out of the package and have been buying bearings from VXB Bearings. The bearings are much better quality then the stock bearings and they have the ABEC 5 bearings for the tail appears.



http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PR...earings/kit1048
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: Niatirb Taerg

Tmoore - great idea, thanks. Came across these.......
http://www.ntnamerica.com/Knowledge...lar_Contact.htm
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
averen
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX

The V2 uses the same bearings in the tail as it does in the head...so, you can use the same thrust bearings on the spindle or in the tail grips.

Jared

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard...Be EVIL!
05-16-2006 Over year old.
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rob10000
Key Veteran
Location: Western Massachusettes

Quote 
The V2 uses the same bearings in the tail as it does in the head...so, you can use the same thrust bearings on the spindle or in the tail grips.


I'm sorry, you didn't make yourself very clear. Could you elaborate?
It sure sounds like you are trying to say that you could substitute thrust bearings from the main rotor grips into the tail rotor grips.
05-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
2down
Senior Heliman
Location: Delaware

I guess I should add myself to the club. I to had the berrings seperate causing my 50 to shed a tail blade
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
averen
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX

Quote 
I'm sorry, you didn't make yourself very clear. Could you elaborate?
It sure sounds like you are trying to say that you could substitute thrust bearings from the main rotor grips into the tail rotor grips.


That's correct. You can get another pair of the thrust bearings that come in the head and use them in the tail...you still need the "normal" roller bearing in there as well..you're just removing the innermost roller bearing and using a thrust bearing. So it goes:
RB = Roller Bearing
TB = Thrust Bearing

RB - TB - Hub - TB - RB

Just like in the grips on the head.

Hope that helps.

Oh, and this only works if you're using the V2 tail components (V1 uses different bearings back there...) and the 30 - 90 all use the same hub, bearings and grips on the tail.

Jared

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard...Be EVIL!
05-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rob10000
Key Veteran
Location: Western Massachusettes

I'm still confused by your suggestion
The thrust bearings in the R50 V2 head are PV0365. These are also called HMX0612 and are sized d6xD12xW5
The tail rotor bearings are PV0200, also known as HMV1050 and are sized d5xD10xW5. I can't see how this would work, based on the differences in ID and OD.
05-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

This is real simple to figure out. Nail an old hub to the wall with the blade grip attached and keep adding weight to the tail grip until the bearings fail. Calculate the weight of the rotor blades, take the rpm and calculate the centrifugal force and you have the loading.

IMHO, the centrifugal force would have to be substantial to make a double bearing fail. The bearings would have to be junk to start with.

TM
05-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
averen
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX

Quote 
I'm still confused by your suggestion
The thrust bearings in the R50 V2 head are PV0365. These are also called HMX0612 and are sized d6xD12xW5
The tail rotor bearings are PV0200, also known as HMV1050 and are sized d5xD10xW5. I can't see how this would work, based on the differences in ID and OD.


Hm, I think you're right. I do have a set of thrust bearings for the tail though...and I know they were made by TT...I don't have the packaging anymore so I'm not sure about the part number. HOWEVER, thrust bearings for the tail do exist...but you're right, they're not the same ones that are in the head...not sure why I thought they were, my bad

Jared

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard...Be EVIL!
05-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
averen
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX

I believe the ones I'm thinking of are PV0047

Jared

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard...Be EVIL!
05-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Exploding tail on your raptors.
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