RunRyder - Align screwed the pooch with the Rex 600.

rrTV-PHOTO

New HD TV

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 317 ONLINE 20 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

11 pages [ << < 6 7 ( 8 ) 9 10 NEXT >> ]

10176 views

TOPIC CLOSED

Next D	.	Fast Lad Performance	.	Ace Hobby
	.		.

e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Align screwed the pooch with the Rex 600.

bugsb
Veteran
Location: rothwell//northants UK

things should get interesting now
as the eRaptor was shown at sandown this weekend
maybe abit of a price war will help
all the talk on the price of the trex600
what about the price of spares
i have not seen any like a crash kit
ron

05-21-2006 09:07 AM

kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

Parts to replace my often crashed e-Raptor 50 are pretty darn cheap.

I'm wondering ... has anyone seen or heard about replacement parts and crash kits for the Rex 600 ?

I'd like to know how much the parts are before I buy the whole heli.

... But honey it was only $$$

05-22-2006 05:41 AM

ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Considering the head and tail of the E-Raptor are the same as the regular raptors, we know how these perform and how much they cost to repair. Its going to be a very highly motivated Align cheerleader to take a trex 600 over a E raptor if the prices are close.

we can never have too many, can we ?

05-22-2006 06:01 AM

Fred I
Senior Heliman
Location: Irvine, CA

check out the new raptor electric video:

http://www.flightpower.co.uk/Raptor...E_Sandown_1.wmv

05-22-2006 07:42 AM

walterc
Heliman
Location: Taipei, Taiwan

Well, I saw Allen Szabo and Jason Krause flew the TRex 600 here in Taipei yesterday and they were just amazing. I had my doubts about a 50-size e-heli before but after I saw the way they flew, I wanted one. As far as the lipo is concerned, in the flights that I saw, they were using 6s2p packs. Simply amazing!

05-22-2006 07:59 AM

Gazzer
Veteran
Location: Hope Valley, UK

Quote
Well, I saw Allen Szabo and Jason Krause flew the TRex 600 here in Taipei yesterday and they were just amazing. I had my doubts about a 50-size e-heli before but after I saw the way they flew, I wanted one. As far as the lipo is concerned, in the flights that I saw, they were using 6s2p packs. Simply amazing!

I am sure it was but as has been said many times, any heli being flown by these guys would probably look amazing! So what makes you want a 50 size e-heli over a 50 size nitro? I really want to understand this....... then I would have a good reason to go out and buy one too

05-22-2006 08:36 AM

Onawing
Heliman
Location: Honolulu, HI

A nitro heli requires additional skills over it's electric counterpart, specifically nitro engine tuning.

On the Rex600, I have to assume that appropriate caution will be excercised by new pilots. I doubt that any 450 pilot will not be intimidated when they spool up the 600 for the first time. Rather, those same pilots look forward to enjoying the benefits of a machine of this size - ability to fly in conditions that would ground smaller machines. That's what they really want.

05-22-2006 12:10 PM

Grant H
Key Veteran
Location: Maryland

Quote
A nitro heli requires additional skills over it's electric counterpart, specifically nitro engine tuning.

Tuning a nitro heli is easy.

An electric heli requires its own set of skills as well, sepearte ones from nitro all together, mainly dealing with power. Pinion, gearing and power consumption, motor mesh and things like belt tightness like on the 450.

Quote
I doubt that any 450 pilot will not be intimidated when they spool up the 600 for the first time

Maybe not, but they should be. With this type of thinking is whats going to get people hurt. The 600 is a HUGE heli compaired to the 450. I hope that these people that jump up to a 600 will have have the commen sense to treat the 600 differently than they have treated the 450. This heli isnt meant to be flown in your back yard or in front of your house, or even at a park for that matter. A 600 "50 sized" requires a huge open spot, preferabley a flying field. I guarantee you that we are going to start seeing videos when its released of idiots flying it around their neighbor hood in the streets and over houses. Then the fun begins.

Quote
Well, I saw Allen Szabo and Jason Krause flew the TRex 600 here in Taipei yesterday and they were just amazing.

All of the vidoes that I have seen of Alan flying the 600 have been mediorcer at best and it has nothing to do with Alan's flying skills. It has all to do with the machine.

05-22-2006 05:06 PM

HOMEPAGE

Heliboy1100
Heliman
Location: Crowley Lake, CA

It's unfortunate that the guys taking shots at Align are out there. I am a newbie to the hobby and I actually started with a Walkera HM60 and while I would not particularly consider them dangerous compared to a 600 size heli, even with just a stock brushed motor I wouldn't want to get hit by it. And while some may consider it a good beginner heli, I disagree (except maybe for the low cost.) It is just not that well put together and the parts are pretty cheap (not of high quality.) Which makes it loosey goosey, which in turn makes it dangerous. I have seen and was lured by advertisements that specifically targets beginners. I have never seen a ad/or review like that for the Trex 600. By the way I did upgrade to the Trex450XL.

The problem I see with this post, is the same growing problem with his nation, of no self accountability. It seems everyone wants to place blame on someone else. Is it Align's fault that they put out a good product? Grant H, you yourself say you LOVE your Trex. Align has a following, because it puts out a good product. Should they be flamed because they want to capitalize on their well earned success? Seems to me that ALL large model from .30's to .90's ARE dangerous so why single out Align? If the Trex600 is more expensive and might prevent a newbie from buying one then great. But I doubt a newbie would be any safer with a Raptor .30, .50 or .90, without proper training. To say the 600 is unsafe is unfair as it hasn't even been released to the public yet, do you know for a fact that it is more dangerous because of build quality than any other bird out there? A newbie can buy anything out there if they have the funds.

In fact it seems to your way of thinking Align did it properly by first introducing a smaller product and getting good at it. Instead of introducing the Trex600 as their first product. There are NO manufacturers out there that have not had some kind of problem. Why are you not flaming Mikado for their larger electric ships? Are theirs (proven)safer than Aligns? I think your problem is that just because the 450 might be a good beginner ship (though I not sure it is.) You assume Align is trying to peddle it's Trex600 to beginners.

As for cost, OF COURSE, it's gonna cost more to go to a bigger ship. Heck if I want to upgrade from my 450XL to a Raptor .30 it's going to cost me more. You guys are comparing apples to oranges.In fact the only .30 size equivelant electric I know of is the Logo 10 and that costs $335 for a kit like my Trex 450XL (bird only, no electrics or motor) which I paid $169. So yeah going up will cost more. But I bet I can use my 9CHP with any size upgrades. As far as comparing the Trex 600 to other 600 size helis (the Logo20 being the only only one I could find.) The MSRP is only $10.00 in difference. The Logo being the less expensive, so is Mikado trying to lure newbies with their lower prices?Personally I'm glad Align is putting out a bigger bird. Trying to find any electric helis larger than a micro/mini is next to impossible. Now some of us electric lovers will have more choices. Please correct me if I wrong, but my understanding is that a larger bird will be more stable than a micro/mini. So I will be looking for a larger bird in the future, but it will be electric. As I already much of the necessary equipment required for an electric. I don't relish the thought of having to buy a whole new field kit for nitro.

While I'm sure, Grant, you are just trying to look out for the hobby and hopefully inform beginners (very commendable,) bashing Align doesn't help. No matter what the fuel or size of the bird, there is a learning curve. Hopefully any beginners will take the right steps and get the right information to be successful and SAFE in this hobby. And that is ALL of our responsibility.

05-22-2006 08:41 PM

H0ndaJunkie
Senior Heliman
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky - USA

Hear, hear! I agree.

I just sold my Raptor 60 because dealing with all of the hassle involved with nitro engines; starting them, running them, and cleaning up after them......it was a pain in the rear.

On the other hand, if I want to fly one of my T-Rexs, I plug it in, and off it goes. Easy.

I also took my head own bloody off with my Raptor, when I didn't know what I was doing with the engine.......I've never had that happen with my electric helis.

If I can get all of that fun and convenience in a larger 600 size heli, you can bet your rear that I'm gonna jump on it! The regular T-rexs are great looking helis....what more could you ask for than a larger heli with the same good looks and performance of it's younger brothers?

Hurray for Align!

05-22-2006 08:55 PM

Grant H
Key Veteran
Location: Maryland

Quote
You assume Align is trying to peddle it's Trex600 to beginners.

No. I dont think that Align is trying to peddle its 600 to beginners, but that is what is happening. How many people in this tread have come out and said, "The Rex450 was great, so I am forsure going to get the 600". How many of these pilots are also new and have never flown anything larger?

A lot of Alings client base comes from new pilots that they brough into the hobby, with little or no experience with anything larger than a 450Rex. These same pilots might, MIGHT see the 600 as to the 450 and think that they can fly it anywhere, just as they did the 450.This is where I see the potential problem.
You can not fly a 50 sized heli anywhere.

Quote
If I can get all of that fun and convenience in a larger 600 size heli,

What convenience are you talking about specificaly?

Quote
I also took my head own bloody off with my Raptor, when I didn't know what I was doing with the engine.......I've never had that happen with my electric helis.

This is a pretty ignorant arguement/statement as well. Just because you didnt know how much about your nitro engine you think that an electric is safer than a nitro? A nitro heli has a clutch, that in case of a hot start, it will sit there, smoke and eventually burn up if you are grabbing the head or even if you arnt holding the head and the blades slap you once. Ever bump the throttle while working on your 450Rex while you were either in the rotor arc or holding the head? I have. It sits there and slapps you, very hard I might add. Why? Because it has no clutch to slip, its direct drive and electric motors have tons of torque. I would much rather get caught in a rotor arc of a 50 or 60 sized nitro engine than a 600 electric engine. Just like a nitro engine, electrics are its own beast.

Quote
As far as comparing the Trex 600 to other 600 size helis

Try the eRaptor (Raptor 50 converted) or the new MA 50.

And no one is bashing Align here, except for maybe a couple of posts from me in the beginning about quality issues.

I actaully wish that Align would have taken one small step and made a ".15" electric heli, rather than jumping up to a .50 sized bird and thats why I started this thread.

And yes. I really do hope that everyone plays it safe and smart with these new electrics comming onto the market.

05-22-2006 09:32 PM

HOMEPAGE

Heliboy1100
Heliman
Location: Crowley Lake, CA

Grant please forgive my ignorance, but don't know what a .15 size heli is. The Logo 10 is the next largest electric bird I have ever seen and that I believe is equivelant to a .30 size. So I'm assuming that a .15 size is about equivelant to a Quick of JP EP8 or an Ikarus Eco8. As a beginner, myself, I looked into these helis and the fact that those are airly close in size to the Trex 450 and the fact that the Trex has tons more support and parts availability I went with the Trex. That of course is not to say the Align might not have been successful with a .15 size heli. But to me the size is so close that I don't think I would go with a new .15 size. Now if they went with a .30 size I would certainly be interested. Now that been said I still believe even a .30 size electric is not safe with a beginner without proper training or supervision and you certainly can't fly a .30 size "anywhere" either. Indeed when I started investigating this hobby almost 2 years ago (it took me til now to get my first heli) I was always recommended to get a .30 size nitro bird. In the scheme of things it seems Align did the hobby and beginners a favor by introducing the Trex so successfully. They allowed me to finally get into the hobby fully. However if they started with a .30 or even the 600 I'm not sure I'd be in it still. Am I more responsible? Less affluent? I don't know, at least compared to other beginners. But the Trex is by no means priced as a beginner bird. And a beginner for who price is no object will buy what they want, no matter what. So if they want a big bird (and the Trex 600 was not available) they will still buy anf larger nitro bird or a different brand.

Quote
A lot of Alings client base comes from new pilots that they brough into the hobby, with little or no experience with anything larger than a 450Rex. These same pilots might, MIGHT see the 600 as to the 450 and think that they can fly it anywhere, just as they did the 450.This is where I see the potential problem.

While I agree with this statement, I also must assume that these current Align fans are now at least somewhat experienced, they do fly a Trex 400 size machine after all. And even I know that a Trex 450 that spun up to full throttle is a dangerous machine. I can imagine someone (an Align follower) would just out of hand assume you could fly the Trex 600 anywhere. That would be like saying anyone, even beginners, would just assume you could fly a .60 size nitro anywhere. Plus I'm sure many if not most Trex flyers are very experienced flyers.

I agree that there probably are a lot of threads out there that, because of their positive experiences with the Trex, that they would "for sure" get a Trex 600. However how many of those thread are from beginners? You still seem to think that only beginners, uninformed, or irresponsible types, will be attracted to the Trex 600. Again to say "Align screwed the pooch" is unfair and irresponsible. Perhaps the original title to your post should have been "Should beginners start with 600 size heli?" or something to that effect.

Quote
What convenience are you talking about specificaly?

As far as the H0ndaJunkie's comment I believe he was talking about, not having to deal with fuel and it's accociated mess, using a starter, etc. I don't think he meant the conveinence of flying in his livingroom.

As an afterthought if I had started with an Ikarus Eco8, than should I not be able to upgrade to the Eco16. The Eco16 is the next step up. Did Ikarus screw the pooch?

05-22-2006 10:52 PM

H0ndaJunkie
Senior Heliman
Location: Bowling Green, Kentucky - USA

You're right, I'm ignorant.

Opinions are great, aren't they!

05-22-2006 10:56 PM

rdlohr
Key Veteran
Location: Pittsfield. MA USA

H0ndaJunkie: LOL, you gotta love a guy who can take a punch!

-#-> Still Flyin, crashin and lovin it!

05-23-2006 12:00 AM

HOMEPAGE

Gazzer
Veteran
Location: Hope Valley, UK

Heliboy

Quote
It's unfortunate that the guys taking shots at Align are out there

The arguemnet here is wether it was a sensible move to release the Trex 600 bird. Everyone agrees the Rex 450 has been a great sucess, we all have our own opinions about it, but you can't fault Align in the way they have had such a great sucess and made a ton of $$$ out of it. No question! However you can argue that Align has made a mistake with the 600. I for one really think they have. It's only an opinion and I think interesting for all, including a newbie, who may consider a Trex600 as a first heli...why not? My belief is that they will lose a fair amount of their $$$$ when sales of this heli are not what they expected! IMHO

Quote
You still seem to think that only beginners, uninformed, or irresponsible types, will be attracted to the Trex 600. Again to say "Align screwed the pooch" is unfair and irresponsible.

Frankly, like you, I do not buy the 'dangerous argument. I mean some idiot could fly his nitro around his neighbour hood if they wanted. To me that's not the point. I think once somebody actually got their hands on the 600 and see it fly, commonsense would kick in and people will realise that it's not for the backyard. I do not agree it's unfair or irresponsible to state an honest opinion about a product. Us doubters think that Align have made a huge marketing mistake with the 600, I don't see why stating this is wrong?

Quote
As for cost, OF COURSE, it's gonna cost more to go to a bigger ship. Heck if I want to upgrade from my 450XL to a Raptor .30 it's going to cost me more.

This makes me

I think you are way wrong on this one. By the time you have spent the money on your XL buying all the bling that you NEED to make it fly anywhere half ways decent you would be spending more than a 30 size nitro. A 30 size nitro in it's standard form flys way better than a stock XL. It has more durable parts, that last longer than a handfull of flights before breaking.

Quote
As far as the H0ndaJunkie's comment I believe he was talking about, not having to deal with fuel and it's accociated mess, using a starter, etc. I don't think he meant the conveinence of flying in his livingroom.

To me this is the only logical argument for owning a 50 sized e-heli. After posting the same question on many threads "why would you want a Trex 600 over a 50 sized nitro" this is the only perceived advantage! IMO the mess argument is seriously overplayed. A couple of minutes wipe down with a rag at the end of a flying day takes care of the mess. OK you have to go through the refuel and starter issues but when I consider the process for an e-heli is it that much different?

1. Fidling with the cheap crap plastic canopy to remove it.
2. Remove the exhausted battery. If your using deans connectors this can take a bit of effort trying to get the plugs apart! Undo the battery strap.
3. Fit a new battery and the reverse of above
4. Some serious fidling with the cheap crap plastic canopy to refit.

I would almost say in terms of time your looking at a very similar turn around...........again all just IMHO!

And for this one perceived advantage you have a whole host of disadvantages

05-23-2006 01:32 AM

rdlohr
Key Veteran
Location: Pittsfield. MA USA

In the parks I fly in, noise is a factor...

-#-> Still Flyin, crashin and lovin it!

05-23-2006 01:36 AM

HOMEPAGE

rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

So if you want it a 30 size put 550mm blades on it and shorten the boom. It really is not that big of difference (i.e. not like you can fly it in a smaller area now

).

I prefer electric over nitro because of the mess, noise and equipment needed to fly (fuel, starter etc...) Plus electric is just a cool changing technology that I enjoy as a hobby.

"To each their own"

05-23-2006 01:40 AM

JamesonMalpezzi
Veteran
Location: lll

Next time i want a headacke i'll just read the posts on this thread

05-23-2006 03:33 AM

oldboldpilot
Key Veteran
Location: Southern California

There must be a huge 50 sized electric market. Just look at the new high-end entries..Mini-Joker and Miniature Aircraft 50. And there already is the Logo 14 carbon, king of the hill right now.

Lots of folks have a lot of money, and, by the end of summer, they will have some really nice new toys to play with

You also have the Raptor 50 electric conversion vying for a piece of the overall market, and now also here comes Align.

Sounds to me as if there is a market in the thousands for 50 sized electrics..

Helis are Man's Defiance of the Laws of Nature - OCHC

05-23-2006 04:28 AM

Heliboy1100
Heliman
Location: Crowley Lake, CA

Gazzer, point well taken on almost every item. I am, of course looking at this through beginner eyes. However as you state it the true question is

Quote
However you can argue that Align has made a mistake with the 600. I for one really think they have. It's only an opinion and I think interesting for all, including a newbie, who may consider a Trex600 as a first heli...why not? My belief is that they will lose a fair amount of their $$$$ when sales of this heli are not what they expected! IMHO

did they make a bad BUSINESS move by introducing the Trex 600?

Seems to me it's the next logical step. I as a beginner start with a
So you nay have gonT-rex 450XL would more than likely move up to a larger bird as I improve. Now is 600 size too big, that certainly could be. However I would certainly consider it, as I am very happy with my 450XL, with no upgrades. Of course I might be happier with bling, but if a Raptor.30 is excellent out of the box, I would imagine the Trex 600 wouldn't need much bling either. I have a hard time beliving that people are buying Logos, Jokers, Quicks, etc. to fly indoors or in confined areas.

So you may have gone to a Trex to fly in areas where you can't fly your Raptor 30. But for the same reason I would get a Trex 600, to fly at my local field because my Trex 450XL is too small. You DON'T buy a 600 to fly in a confined area electric or not.

As far as Nitro vs. Battery. This I admit to be a little biased on. I live in a rural city, where the closest hobby shop is over 100 miles away. And they don't know much about helis. So nitro is far too much of a consumable compared to nitro for me. Plus again if the argument is made that Trex fan will be lured to the 600, I'm assuming that just like mw they already have the necessary chargers and such for electric flight. So why switch to nitro now. The tech for electric is now such that it is very close to rivaling nitro, is my understanding.

The 600 size market is already there, Align is just making it more accessible to those of us who otherwise might not consider it. I think that if a 600 size electric bird was a bad business decision, then Mikado, Joker, and others would no longer be in business. The fact that Align already has a following naturally dictates that just about any size they introdue will be something of a success (so long as it's a decent bird.) I can't believe Align is thinking they will make as much money with the Trex 600 as they do with the Trex 450, as I'm sure they are aware that while they may attract some beginner, a 600 size will mostly be geared for experienced flyers. I do think they will do better than (sales wise) Mikado and others as Align is almost a household name. It's probably less risk then Mikado coming out with a new 600 size bird.

05-23-2006 05:10 AM

11 pages [ << < 6 7 ( 8 ) 9 10 NEXT >> ]

10176 views

TOPIC CLOSED

Esprit Model	.	Thunder Power RC	.	Mikado Modellhubschrauber
	.		.

e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Align screwed the pooch with the Rex 600.

PRINT TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic