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Ace Hobby . Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC

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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Castle Creations ESC HELI SPECIFIC UPGRADE firmware AVAILABLE w/ instructions. Post u'r setup !
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

http://www.castlecreations.com/down...rh-phoenix.html

Click on the link above and download v 1.51b

Release notes:
HELICOPTER SPECIFIC:

* Added heli fixed throttle mode
* Added motor start power adjustment so that very high torque setups can be started smoothly (no kick)
* Added governor gain to achieve better RPM hold accuracy on varying helicopter sizes/weights
* Revamped governor modes that increase RPM hold accuracy and flexibility
* 2-4 second delay with loss of transmitter signal before motor is stopped in helicopter throttle settings

ALL FLIGHT MODES

* Added throttle response adjustment so that users can increase /decrease throttle change sensitivity
* Added error codes for problem resolution
* Greatly increased throttle resolution for smoother throttle response



INSTRUCTIONS *
(Please use this only as a reference point. I do not accept any form of liability from anyone using this set of instructions. I am only posting this for a reference point and not an actual settings/operational point.)

Start with the various parameters at their low(er) settings and work up gradually.

The options provided are usually High/Medium/Low and Custom. If you select Custom you may then enter a numeric value that will allow you to fine tune the setting.

These parameters are likely to be different for different size helis and will likely differ between helis of the same class with different power systems.

Selecting one of the Heli Throttle settings will automatically disable the brake and other related settings.



Throttle types:

Heli Fixed Throttle Endpoint Mode -
This is an entirely new mode that is intended to allow you to use manual throttle for flight while preventing sudden high-powered motor starts that can harm your gears. Use this throttle mode if you prefer mixing your own pitch/throttle curves on your transmitter for collective helis, or want a “bail out” option when practicing auto rotations.

Once the ESC is armed, if you throttle up quickly to a mid throttle point (or release the throttle hold/cut button), the heli will smoothly spool up to that throttle level. Once that throttle level is reached, full power and throttle response is now available with changing throttle/pitch levels on the stick. Most likely, you’ll want to utilize your idle settings/switch or the throttle hold/cut button for start-up and shut down, then flip into one of the flight modes suggested here: (These flight modes are programmed by you into your TX)

Start-up/shut down (Idle/flight mode 1) – you’ll most likely want to use a linear “airplane” throttle curve from zero to 100% here, to show the ESC a low throttle for arming, and then to fully stop the motor. You can also set your throttle hold/cut button for zero throttle, and use it to arm and shut down in either of the flight modes below.

Normal Flight mode (Idle/flight mode 2) – Set your desired headpeed using the throttle % at middle stick and move it up or down to get the headspeed you want. Depending on your motor, you’ll need to complete a “V” curve with slightly higher throttle %’s on either side of the middle throttle point to maintain headspeed with changes in pitch. A good test is the spool up the heli on the ground, and tach the head at full negative pitch. Use this reading to adjust the outermost throttle % to get the desired headspeed at full negative and positive pitch.

Auto rotation with bail out mode (Idle/flight mode 3) – You can now set Idle 3 for a flat low % throttle curve (explained below) and you’re regular pitch curve to simulate a motor off situation by flipping to Idle 3 in flight. Your motor will throttle down to your lowest speed setting and allow you to maintain headspeed during the descent with negative pitch and then flair for landing.

If a bail out is needed, simply flip back to Idle/flight mode 2 and you’ll have immediate power available again without having to spool up. To set the throttle curve so that power is available without going through spool up, start by setting a low % throttle curve for this flight mode, and spool up the heli. Now drop the throttle curve down slowly (noting rpms going down) until the motor stops running. Bring the throttle % back up a few points until it begins running again. That setting will be your minimum throttle % to keep the motor active during an auto in this mode. If you reduce the throttle below this % setting the ESC will utilize the slower protected spool up routine described above.

Heli governor (low and high)
When this throttle mode is selected, the Phoenix will automatically maintain your heli’s headspeed at an RPM that is determined by the throttle signal. Once you determine the necessary %, your throttle curve should be programmed to be “flat” at that percentage setting.

The following settings must be made in your transmitter’s program, typically one three position switch is used to toggle between the settings:

1.Phoenix must see a zero or low throttle setting to arm, so set one flight mode or switch to provide that signal.

2.Then set up a second flight mode or switch setting that will be your “throttle up” switch.

3.Determine the necessary throttle signal for your desired headspeed.

Start with a flat curve in low governor and measure the headspeed. Move the throttle % up or down to reach your desired headspeed. If you cannot get a fast enough headspeed in low gov, then switch to high gov. When set for your desired headspeed, keep that flat % curve for the throttle and the Phoenix will maintain that constant headspeed for you as long as your transmitter is sending that throttle percentage. You should now have a flat throttle setting, it is not advisable to change throttle speed with the transmitter while in governor mode, with the obvious exception of on and off.

OTHER CASTLE PHOENIX HELI SETTINGS

Spool up speed:
This setting controls how quickly the power is ramped up from zero or low headspeed to the throttle level given from the transmitter. The faster the spool up speed, the faster the head will accelerate to the throttle % in governor and Heli Safe Throttle modes. Once the headspeed is very near that level, spool up function ceases, and the throttle stick or Phoenix Governor is in direct control of throttle changes. Experiment to find the speed you are most comfortable with, as some folks enjoy a slow spool up, and others want a very fast one.

This setting will only work if you have selected a heli throttle mode (Governor high or low, or Heli Safe Throttle mode)

You may notice a small hesitation a few seconds into the spool-up on larger setups. If you wish to remove this, select a slower spool up speed.


Throttle Response
This setting controls the allowable rate of change from one throttle level to another. The higher the response, the less dampening there is for changing throttle levels. The lower the response, the throttle may feel “mushy” or slow to respond. The observed reaction is much like adding or reducing exponential to a control surface. For the Heli Safe Throttle mode, this setting is important for “fine tuning” the throttle response time to maintain constant headspeed across pitch changes.

Start power
This setting controls how much power is allowed into the motor to get it started from a dead stop. Each motor/prop/battery combination for a heli is different, so it’s best to start with a low setting first, and experiment to find which looks best to you from there.

Governor Gain
This setting works the same as the gain on your gyro. Too little, and the governor rpm response can appear mushy, and too much can induce oscillation. Generally the larger the heli, the higher the gain for crispest response. Our Logo 10 runs best on high, and the medium setting is a bit soft. TRex size helis run best on Medium, and high can induce oscillation.


Enjoy guys.



*** Update from Bernie Wolfard @ Castle Creations ***

Some basics. To get the governor to work correctly you need to set your helicopter up correctly. The governor will not compensate for an improperly set system. To make sure you heli is set up correctly start with ‘Heli: Fixed Endpoint’ mode. Set the heli up to get the head speed you want at about 75% throttle. Gear as needed to get the desired headspeed. Set up like this your motor should be running it it’s efficient range with enough headroom that the motor can maintain this speed with hard collective use. Gearing here is important. Once you get the headspeed you want at about *75% throttle in ‘Heli: Fixed Throttle’ mode go on low gov and adjust your throttle curve to a straight line that gives you the same headspeed as you got at 75% throttle in ‘Heli: Fixed Endpoint’ mode. If you cannot get this headspeed in gov low go to gov high. If the heli is set up right in ‘Heli: Fixed Endpoint’ mode it doesn’t matter what throttle % gives you your desired headspeed in gov mode.

If you can’t gear to get the headspeed you want at about 75% throttle in ‘Heli: Fixed Endpoint’ by gearing you need a different motor or battery voltage. If you cannot get the headspeed you want at about 75% throttle in “Heli: Fixed Throttle’ your helicopter is not set up right and will not work in gov mode.

Bernie

* When getting to 75% in ‘Heli: Fixed Endpoint’ keep your top throttle ATV or endpoint at 100%. Tricking the transmitter by moving the top throttle ATV to say 50%, so it shows 75% when that is really only at 37.5%, is only fooling your self and is not setting the heli up correctly. Once you go to gov mode you know you can get the headspeed you want so changing the transmitter endpoints at this point does nothing.

... But honey it was only $$$
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

Hold on to that Jazz until they also upgrade the hardware to a more efficient BEC!

But other than that, I agree with the sentiment- it seems like a major step in the right direction. I have 4 ESCs I'll be trying it on soon!


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

Quote 
Hold on to that Jazz until they also upgrade the hardware to a more efficient BEC!

But other than that, I agree with the sentiment- it seems like a major step in the right direction. I have 4 ESCs I'll be trying it on soon!


Nope. I use seperate BEC's on all my ESC's.

2 of my Jazz do not have on board BEC's anyways.



... But honey it was only $$$
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
whtbronco
Senior Heliman
Location: Winchester, Virginia USA

I may have to try this on my foamy(CC10) as well as my Rex(CC35).

My CC10 has 41 hours of flight time on it without a single issue.

There's also a CC25 in my near future for my new 3D park flyer that's awaiting electronics.

Chris Wish I was flying!
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Grant H
Key Veteran
Location: Maryland

Having had a couple of CCs ESC before, they are good ESCs.

But, I am still sticking to the saying. You get what you pay for.
05-05-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

Quote 
But, I am still sticking to the saying. You get what you pay for.


If you live by that saying, you're loosing a lot of money on many things outside of RC.

ie. Logo 10 is the same price as the Swift. Quality difference ? Yes. Price? Same.

My CC45HV handles more cells/amps than it's Jazz counter part and is less than 1/2 the price. I can't even use the Jazz in my 11S1P Raptor because it maxes out at 10 cells, while the CC45HV goes way past that mark.

Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

... But honey it was only $$$
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Grant H
Key Veteran
Location: Maryland

I tend to TRY and buy the best stuff out there that I can afford, but get it at the best price I can find. Take for example The Jazz. I think that i paid $150 for it. Most other people probably paid $180 through their regular retailer. Dont get me wrong, I am a thrifty shopper, but there are some things I dont like to skimp on. Another example is the JR649 receiver. I thought that most places sold it for the same exact price, and thats mostly what I found. Untill I did a bunch of searching and found it at one place that was selling it $10 cheaper than everyone else AND it included a cyrstal. I bought 2 units and saved myself like $60 because there was free shipping as well.

We will see how this new firmware works over the large sprectrum of t-rex fliers in the upcommin months. Not that its any indication of this release, but in the past, most of CC's firmware releases were steps back.

Quote 
Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.


LOL.. Love that movie man.. You got a laugh out of me forsure...

My wife and I always liked as the skeltons were running away, "Lets get the hell out of here.."
05-05-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

yep.

... But honey it was only $$$
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
QuantumPSI
Elite Veteran
Location: Boston, MA

I'm excited about this new update. I've been having real problems with my CC35 on 4s. Hopefully this update will solve my problems. Got a little maintenance to do and will let you guys no how it performs sometime this weekend!

Mikel

...now where was I, dh/dt = BS-dx/dt
I will fly you forever... till earth do us part
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
koko76
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashua, N.H. USA

After reading more of that thread, I am intrigued to try this out for myself. Any idea of a "ballpark" to start with these new settings?
05-05-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

If it's only flashing and not spooling up, apparently the Low signal that the ESC senses needs to be in the 'negative' range.

With my throtle set at ZERO for bottom ATV and my stick all the way down, the esc thought it was reading half stick which is why it went into prgramming mode.

to Fix:

Set your throtle channel trim to negative -25. You might have to adjust the atv too as the esc's signal resolution may have changed.

You would not believe how many people wanted this beta out, so instructions will follow and others will post setup's as well.

I did an agreement that I wouldn't post/share my alpha software and my alpha settings because each specific alpha tester has the possibility of coming up with different settings/same setup and the rest of it is legal stuff.

The beta settings that I will try this weekend however I'm free to post/share just like everyone else. There will be a lot of that this weekend.

I loaded the beta on all of my CC's and will be tossing them through the hoops again.

So far, so good.

From what I've heard through the testers, CC has hit it on the head with this one, but as usual, time will tell.

... But honey it was only $$$
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
leslie
Key Veteran
Location: Hollis, NH - USA

Hi All,

Can you elaborate on 'added error codes'?? I curious on how to access error codes.

Thanks for the work!!

Cheers,
Leslie

Protecting those who protect us
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ShellDude
Elite Veteran
Location: East Coventry, PA

Quote 
* 2-4 second delay with loss of transmitter signal before motor is stopped in helicopter throttle settings


I bet this solves a lot of peoples' "cutout" problems. Unfortunately it's very similar to how PCM masks a bigger problem.
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Sam Verlander
Senior Heliman
Location: Hampton,Virginia - USA

I am still running my CC 35 in governor mode running software version 1.041(Beta)8/02/04
I have the Castle link and can update it anytime but it flies so good I hate to change it but I guess I can save the settings and reinstall it if I don't like the new software.
I do have a Jazz on one of my Trex's and I do like the softstart and I think the BEC is better but I always thought the CC35 held the RPM's better. I just bought another Jazz for my HDE carbon frame build and want to see if it is the same or better than my first Jazz. If it's no better then I will try a CC35 on the same heli so the comparison will be with identical setups and see which is better.
Sam
In Virginia
05-06-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
koko76
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashua, N.H. USA

Installed the update, and went flying earlier. I can certainly verify that you will have to move the throttle endpoint down, I had to change the ATV by a large margin. In the process I think I changed something in the modes during inadvertant programming.
I tried my old throttle curve, and startup seemed relatively slow, but the bottom part of my curve was pretty conservative. For the next flight I switched to a straight line curve, I had heard of people running this with the motor I had just put in, so I tried it. The slow rampup did not happen this time. Heli flew just fine though.
I brought the heli back home to check if I'd reprogrammed anything by mistake while trying to get the endpoints right. According to the castle link there was nothing changed.
Some more playing is definitely in order here, I am going to try governer mode to see what I think about that one. I would have tried it then, but I don't usually drag my laptop along with me. I'll report more when I try it.
05-06-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

post from another happy CC'er:

Hi there,

I haven't participated in this thread before, although I've been watching it for a couple of months. I've been waiting for the helicopter-optimized firmware release in the hope that it would improve the behavior of my T-Rex. Now that I've had a chance to try out 1.51 on my Phoenix 35, I just wanted to report that the new firmware looks pretty good to me.

Two significant problems I used to have are gone! First, I used to get a tail wag due to governor oscillation. Now, the rotor speed sounds more constant and the tail wag is gone. In addition, the heli used to yaw counter-clockwise dramatically on a rapid climb-out, even though that really shouldn't have been happening given my motor/pinion/battery/pitch combination. Now, this yawing behavior is nearly gone as the rotor holds its speed much better.

Furthermore, the spool-up is smoother than before. I did, however, have to lower my throttle trim quite a bit to get the ESC to arm with the new firmware.

My thanks to CC for this firmware update (although the wait over the last to months was excruciating ).

... But honey it was only $$$
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
msingels
Heliman
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

I have a CC Phoenix 45 ESC control I bought a year and a half ago. Will this software work with it and install the Heli options? Thanks in advance for any response.
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
rerazor
Elite Veteran
Location: Mich.

It will work on ALL CC PHX controllers. The spool up is very smooth, night and day difference. There are a lot of adjustments to fine tune it to any needs. This is by far the best update CC has ever made for Heli pilots.

Very happy with it so far in my Trex (phx25 on 4s) and logo 10E (HV45 on 6s).
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
lawrenmd
Senior Heliman
Location: Orlando FL.

Ditto here. Spool up is greatly improved and heli performs great from what I gathered tonight. I will post more after some serious flying tomorrow.

T-Rex 4S-Neu 1107-2Y
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
kookboy
Key Veteran
Location: Vancouver, BC -up north and Seattle, WA down south

I'm just happy that Castle took the initative and allowed outside people to volunteer and test their alpha software and upload their setups/hicups directly via the link to their development team. This made it possible for them to release the full beta this early in the year.

Overall, it is now the ESC of choice in all my heli's.

I still have one Jazz but that's for an AP setup that I need to be as efficient as possible which the Jazz does.

Enjoy guys.

... But honey it was only $$$
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Align T-REX 250-450-500-600 > Castle Creations ESC HELI SPECIFIC UPGRADE firmware AVAILABLE w/ instructions. Post u'r setup !
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