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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Questions on Raptor 90 SE
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Hi,

I have a Raptor 90 SE and was wondering if the consensus recommends dumping the metal side plates to reduce weight, as well as making any other mods to lighten it up.

I've just finished breaking it in and am getting pretty decent power, compared to my Raptor 50 w/ OS-50H, but it still seems a little sluggish in fast, vertical punch-outs.

My setup is:

- OS-91SZH w/ OS 8 plug
- Curtis MP2
- VBlades throughout
- GV-1
- 9303 TX
- R649 RX (9 ch.)
- GY611 w/ 9456
- 9252s w/ 9202 on throttle

Pitch curve in fl. mode 2 (linear curve with +10.5/-10.5 pitch) is:
10, 23.5, 37, 50, 63, 76.5, 90

What's a good RPM for 3D? I have the GV-1 set to 1950 in fl. mode 2. Is that too high? The engine was running much faster than that without the governor, and the throttle curve was [100, INH, 65, 53, 65, INH, 100], but I don't want to overspeed it long-term.

Any thoughts on weight mods or setup changes?

Thanks!
Scott
05-03-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Andreas
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Hi.

If you're using 8.27 gear ratio i think you should run somwhere around 1800-1850 on the head.

For weightsaving, a lot of guys (including me) don't use the sideframestiffeners, the carbon base plate or the horizontal fin.

Andreas
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Hi Andreas,

Thanks for the info.

- I've got an 8.45 gear ratio (93 / 11).
- Does removing the side frame stiffeners pose any danger? Could a hard auto break the carbon side frames?
- Without the horizontal fin, what do you use to secure the boom supports?

Thanks,
Scott
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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inkspot1967
Elite Veteran
Location: cranston ri.

ALSO YOU WANT ABOUT +12.5 TO -12.5 DEG PITCH WILL HELP FOR PUNCH

Team Cajunhelicopters.com
Rave mini-g
WENZEL CANOPYS
Vibe50 flybarless
Team no Turds
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
tauscnc
Veteran
Location: IL : www.cuttingedgecnc.c om

I don't think removing the base plate could save enough weight for the crash protection you get from it. I don't see this as a good option personally.

The boom supports are bolted to the side of the holder, you don't need a fin there.

I have also wondered if removing the side stiffeners would cause cracking of the carbon side frames especially around the engine. I can't imagine the weight saving is enough.

My friend went from a 5 cell sub-C something like 11 oz battery to a fromeco 2400 (around 3 oz) battery and said he couldn't really tell any difference.

taus
www.cuttingedgecnc.com
05-03-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

My bad -- I'm actually running +/- 12.0 degrees on the pitch. The servo gets too tinny of a hum past that, so I don't want to overstress it.

Is it best to go with a linear pitch curve on idle 2 and hold? I actually started hold at +20, used expo, and set the rest linear. The shop I bought it from set it up for me and used a linear curve on idle 2 between +10 and +90, which made punch-outs a bit lame. I'm trying straight linear to see how it goes.

Thanks!
Scott
05-03-2006 Over year old.
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Jerry Sudimick
Veteran
Location: Connecticut

Pete Niotis and myself are running 827 gearing on that engine at 1930 on the GV1.

I'm running Radix 690's and he is running V710's.

Both with Hatori exhaust.

I played with the 836 gearing on the SZ in my fury. I dont think the engine works as well at the higher gearings. That is a YS gear ratio.

Inkspot comments about 12.5 degrees of pitch, I do not think that is something you want to do. Not many people can manage that kind of pitch effectively like Alan Jr did.

Start with 10/10 and you will end up in the 11/11 area as you get the machine tuned and flying to your liking.

As far as the plates - they weigh 3.2oz. Add the bottom plate and you are at 4.2 oz or a little more.

If your goal is performance, take them off. We have seen no adverse effect to removing the side plates, bottom plate, and some of the misc frame hex crossmembers. Horiz fin too. The metal boom clamp still functions without a horizontal fin.

Using a fuel magnet and getting rid of the header tank saves another ounce.

If you are concerned about crash survivability, I would leave them on. Depends what you are after.

Jerry
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Jerry Sudimick
Veteran
Location: Connecticut

Scott,

Linear is the way Freestyle 3D has been teaching it for years. Normal, Idleup1, 2, and hold - all identical linear 'curves'

Normal is only used to spool heli up to RPM on the ground, so no point in changing it for a true 3D application. Most of the top pilots leave their 'curves' as they came default from the radio manufacturer.

The 9252 is a little weak for the collective servo on a Raptor 90 if you are going to fly hard 3D.

The heli has about 24 or 25 degrees of mechanical pitch travel. Mine goes lock to lock from -12.5 to +12.5 mechanically Electronically of course I'm sure I'm running between 11 and 12 with 690's.

If it is sounding 'tinny' it must be on the mechanical stop.

Jerry
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Andreas
Veteran
Location: Sweden

I have over 300 flights and about 5 pretty hard crasches on mine without the sideframe stiffeners and the base plate. I've never had to change a chassie so i think you can take them both off without any worries.

Andreas
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Andreas,

That's good to know... thanks.

Scott
05-03-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Raptor Rulezzz
Key Veteran
Location: Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

Quote 
- GV-1


Swapping the GV-1 for a more modern governor will give you power increase as well as a better punch out... RevMax, Revlock, TJpro... I've tried them all and there all good, Revmax being my favorite.

You could also use the GVoff function, to turn of the GV-1 above 85% throttle, that would give you more punch. The better plan is to mount a more modern governor.

+/- 10 degrees pitch or a tiny bit more should be enough to get all the punch you need. Especially if you're running V-blades... I run 1840 rpm on my R90's.
I also use a KO PROPO 2123 pitch servo (0,06 sec and VERY strong) so I also suggest that you look at getting a stronger servo for pitch, a 9252 is a bit marginal on a 90... if you want to get max. performance...


Cheers,

Richard



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Raptor Rulezzz,

Thanks for the info. Although I've always done my own setups, I decided to let the shop that I bought the 90 from do the setup for me, since I'd never setup a 90 before. As it turns out, the shop owner didn't set a 0 - 100 linear pitch curve (only 10 - 90), so I wasn't getting the full +/- 12 degrees. Now that all the curves are reset, Rappy Sr. is a baaad, baaaaaad boy.

I will get a better pitch servo, just for the hell of it. The governor seems to be holding well now at around 1830 or so. I've got more than enough power to play with until I get used to how the bird flies. I'm still scared to death to invert it, enough though I can fly controlled inverted circuits all day long in RF. It's just such a beautiful bird, I'm afraid to screw it up!

Thanks,
Scott
05-04-2006 Over year old.
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Yug
rrProfessor
Location: Niatirb Taerg

The horizontal fin impairs 3D performance.
The base plate offers protection against heavy landings.
I'm looking to replace the frame stiffeners with carbon ones.
05-04-2006 Over year old.
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

I've got the stock plastic piece connected to the boom supports and fin. Is there a metal piece I can get the holds the supports solidly without the fin?
05-04-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tauscnc
Veteran
Location: IL : www.cuttingedgecnc.c om

Quote 
The horizontal fin impairs 3D performance.


Yes, sure, if it is the full plastic one but the carbon one the SE comes with, with all of the cuts out...nah. If you keep it on, there is barely anything to it.

The SE comes with an aluminum boom support holder that does not need your horizontal fin to be on.

taus
05-04-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Andreas
Veteran
Location: Sweden

Hi.

Yeah both TT and Quick UK makes a metal tail support mount and with them, you don't need the horizontal fin. I can recommend the one from Quick UK (www.quickuk.co.uk).

Andreas
05-04-2006 Over year old.
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

As I was told, mine is the first version SE that came out. Apparently it didn't come with as much metal as the current version does, so I just have the plastic piece. The carbon fins I have are these at Helihobby. Scroll down to "Large Raptor 60 - 90 3D Fins NHP / Thunder Tiger." These aren't too big to hamper 3D?

I'm also going to replace the plastic horizontal fin bracket with this one. Scroll down to "Aluminum Horizontal Fin Bracket R90." Is that what comes stock with the current SE?

Lastly, I'm replacing the 93-tooth main gear with a 91, which should work better with the OS-SZH, correct?

Thanks, dudes -- I can always count on great info here!
05-04-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Yug
rrProfessor
Location: Niatirb Taerg

Quote 
"Aluminum Horizontal Fin Bracket R90." Is that what comes stock with the current SE?

Yes. Just want to add that I've found that it can slip on the boom even when tight - this just wears the boom so wrap some electrical tape around the boom. Alternatively, the QuickUK part tends to hold much better. The only mod I do to that is cut off the horizontal fin mounting wings.
The white gear (91 tooth) with the 11 tooth pinion gives a gear ratio of 8.27, which results in a HS of 1850 when the engine is in its peak powerband of a tad over 15000rpm.
05-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
tauscnc
Veteran
Location: IL : www.cuttingedgecnc.c om

Hey Guy,

I asked my friend about the carbon fin for 3D and he told me it does impact fast backward for him...go figure

My aluminum boom support is clamped from the bottom, its 2 pieces and you can really squeeze it tight. I have found just a hit of white powder around it so I assume it has vibrated and caused some wear in the 2 flights I have on it...I will put some electric tape around it.

Good stuff.
taus
05-05-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
funkykeys
Senior Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

Raptor Rulezzz,

Where do you recommend I get the KP PROPO 2123 servo? Does anyone recommend an alternate?

Thanks,
Scott
05-05-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Questions on Raptor 90 SE
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