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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > What gets more flight time per dollar, electric or gas?
 
 
Tuckster
Heliman
Location: Mansfield - England

Quote 
It´s impossible to learn without chashing


Not true!!!

I learnt on electric ECO 8 , moved to Raptor 50. No crashes after 1 year of flying (even did an auto 2 weeks ago when engine bearing smashed plug and engine died!!!)


I self taught, no instructor but reads masses of articles on web. Also took it very very steady. Did not get XTR Sim until I could hover and do basic flying. Use XTR for stick time and to dry run new moves. Now I can nose-in, figure of 8. I'm now trying to learn 3D.......

In hindsight would have just done Raptor and bypassed ECO as Raptor is far easier but did enjoy electric whilst learning. Was advised to go for a 30 but decided for a 50 as that is what I wanted and parts are cheap.

hassle with batteries and waiting for a day when not too breezy were main factors of moving from Electric to Nitro. Eco was blown around far too easy.

Have flown Raptor in strong winds where had to hover at 45 degrees to keep in position.

Also compared price of parts and some Raptor 50 parts are cheaper than Eco 8 equivalent!!!

Have tried both. Verdict (Gas Heli= Absolutely)

more upfront cost for elctric if you buy enough batteries and charges for a good days continuous flying and I do not really believe you will get the full number of cycles out of a battery due to the high current drain and care required, I killed a battery after 30 flights, might have been my fault but still adds up to a cost of a replacement
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Luis104
Senior Heliman
Location: Caracas / Venezuela

Quote 
Not true!!!

I learnt on electric ECO 8 , moved to Raptor 50. No crashes after 1 year of flying


Hey no hard feelings...!!! miracles can happen, soo luccky for you.
but the day will come some day

Girls and RC Helicopters are dangerous...!!! but we need them...!!!
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
SPB
Elite Veteran
Location: Athens - Greece

Quote 
but the day will come some day


This is a sad but very true statement. It did came for all us


Sotiris
Sponsored by Greekrotors
myhelis.com Flying Team
05-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
oldboldpilot
Key Veteran
Location: Southern California

Chief_Leavitt

As between Raptor and T-Rex, do the Raptor - I recommend 50 size:

1. it is reliable;
2. you can see it;
3; repair parts are inexpensive;
4. it flies with angle rates you have a good chance to control;
5. you will probably finds a Raptor pilot at your field, who can help you.

Helis are Man's Defiance of the Laws of Nature - OCHC
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Costas
Senior Heliman
Location: Adelaide - AUSTRALIA

At the end of the day - The physically larger helis fly much better - irrespective of cost.

Due to technical reasons such as Reynolds numbers and the like - scaling any aircraft/helis down smaller and smaller will result in degrading flight performance/precision.

Another consideration is the fact that the mechanical components of our helis are easier to manufacture with more precision when the parts are physically larger. For an extreme comparison - take a look at a 90 class machine and then a Trex etc. On the 90 you will find very tight control systems for the servos etc whereas on the smaller machines it is much harder to achieve this - This will affect how a heli responds in the air.

Also the Radio flight gear is more precise on the larger machines. Devices like standard sized servos etc have much more precision than their smaller micro counterparts. Gyros like the 611 coupled with high frame rate servos are much more sophisticated than their smaller cousins and these components all add up to more performance and precision.

What this means is that a Rappy 30 (or any current 30 sized machine) will fly smoother/better than a smaller Trex sized machine - irrespective of power source.

For a beginner - a 30 sized (or even a 50) will be easier to control and fly versus a smaller heli and this has to be considered in the overall purchasing decision.

Costas
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
PanX
Senior Heliman
Location: Athens , Greece

Costas is a greek name?

Panos, SV1COX
http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/pbog/
05-20-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Costas
Senior Heliman
Location: Adelaide - AUSTRALIA

That's correct - Yasou!

BTW 73's VK5ZXR
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
TRex888
Veteran
Location: Monmouth, UK

Can you clock up 500 flights in 8 months on a nitro/gas heli?
05-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
stevo37
Heliman
Location: Melbourne, victoria, Australia

This post is probably a bit late as the last entry seems to have been made in june. Just want to say good things come to those who wait. THE TREX 600 AND NOW THE QUICK EP8
10-28-2006 Over year old.
 
 
vic88my
Heliman
Location: Malaysia

Big electric Heli

Dear buddies,

So, that means the main drawback of trex or other electrics is that it is not so stable like gas.

why not we try to fly a big electric heli?

It will be electric while not sacrifice on gas ?

Isn't it a win win strategy ?

Thanks.

Regards,
Victor
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
firefox
Senior Heliman
Location: Thailand

Big electric helis mean big things, namely the ESC (huge, high-voltage, $$$), the batteries (huge pack, $$$), and the motor (pretty darn big, again $$$). The price difference for these components, going from a T-rex450 to a 50-size, is not insignificant, and that's an understatement.

I started on a Raptor Titan. In more than a year of flying, I only crashed it once, and that was because I was trying some new 3D move without practicing on the sim first. It was expensive, but it happened only once.

I wanted to try out electric, since I convinced myself I wanted to fly at any place. I bought a T-rexSE ($$$) and put the best components on it ($$$) so that I couldn't blame the parts quality. End result is that I ended up crashing nearly every other flight, doing fairly basic moves. The repairs were relatively cheap, but since it happened so often, I ended spending a fortune on repairs. My friend also started on the T-rex, and never got beyond simple hovering, if that, and also spent a fortune on repairs. Once he gave up on it and moved to the Raptor, he progressed very rapidly. He hasn't crashed the Raptor even once.

Can you clock up 500 flights in 8 months in a nitro heli? Why not? You can clock up 50+ flights in a single day on a nitro heli, if you're so inclined. Can you clock up 5 flights in a single hour on an electric, with 3 battery packs, like a nitro? No.

Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages to each. Nitros can be messy, but not as people like to exaggerate... I only give my Raptor a cursory wipe after every flight day. Nitros can be loud, but if you compare it to a 50 size electric, the difference isn't earth-shattering. Engines need tuning, but for electrics you need to match the motor to the ESC and battery and pinion. Etc. etc....
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
vic88my
Heliman
Location: Malaysia

Ok. so, one of the reasons that Trex 450 being hard to fly is due to small is unstable. What about trex600 or raptor 600EP ?

Battery technology nowadays keep advancing. 20 min per flight is feasible and quite normal. One hour charge is ready to go.

For me this is a hobby and not for competition training, I won't go for more than 3 rounds per day. Moreover, I hover and stop resting than hover again, not playing continously.

I know the global trend is moving towards electric nowadays.

***Please I want unbiased opinion with objectivity and no stereotyping points of view.
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Quote 
20 min per flight is feasible and quite normal.

Feasible yes, normal no -- at least not without packs so heavy that anything but mild flight would be difficult. Batteries will evolve to this level eventually.

Calculating nitro vs LiPo cost per flight is a numbers game that's dependent entirely upon how often you crash. Crash often and nitro is the smarter move. Crash rarely and electrics make more sense. The break-even point changes as battery technology advances, but currently a good rough guess would be that if you crash hard enough to destroy a 50-sized (T-Rex 600) battery pack more often than once every 100 flights you'd be better off with nitro.

With diligent attention to the build and setup and lots of sim time to polish the skills, 100 flights between crashes is within reach, but if I had to guess I'd bet the average is something like 1 in 50 or more for aggressive heli fanatics.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
Old Red
Senior Heliman
Location: Borrego, California

Quote 
Can you clock up 500 flights in 8 months on a nitro/gas heli?

And that would be 500 6-8 minute flights to my 125 or so 15+ minute flights?

And don't forget to calculate in the cost of new batteries every 2-3 years... If you don't crash and ruin one... Which you probably will...

Nitro, short and long term is still cheaper for mid size helis (.30) and larger.

Red
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
vic88my
Heliman
Location: Malaysia

Each tankful of nitro costs 1.5 dollar. If we play 5 times a day and 20 days a month for 1 year will be 1800 dollars.

For Electric each charge is only 10 cents for 5 times a day and 20 times a month for 1 year will be 120 dollars.
That is a big difference of 1680 dollars savings per year !!

No wonder Electric is a fad now worldwide.

Crash issue:
solution is ->
1)practice with care.
2) Use training gear and flight simulator for the first 6 months.
3) learn at the slow pace. don't rush. Be patient.

So, the conclusion is Electric RC heli is cheaper than nitro by
for the running costs.

other benefits are cleaner, less hassle, plug and go, cheaper,
more fun, etc

So, The benefits of electric heli still outweight its shortage which can be overcome.
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Let us know if your 'crash issue' solutions work, hmmm?

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
vic88my
Heliman
Location: Malaysia

To add on,

How confident is there that Nitro won't crash ?

When it crashes the costs is even much higher than electric.
Because it smashes harder into the ground, breaking everything apart.
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Quote 
How confident is there that Nitro won't crash ?

No more so than that my electric won't crash. Prep x skill = longevity.

Quote 
When it crashes the costs is even much higher than electric.
Because it smashes harder into the ground, breaking everything apart.

Not true. All other things being equal (which they never are, of course), damage should be equal as well. The T-Rex 600 Nitro (which will be released soon) will probably bear this out since 90%+ of the parts are interchangable.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
cchap85
Heliman
Location: Anchorage, AK-USA

Learn to hover/fly on a sim. Transfer skill to a raptor 50 or a trex. Learn aerobatics on a t-rex. Go back to the raptor. yes it is expensive this way but you can park fly at a moments notice and do so quietly while practicing flips, rolls, nose in etc.. A well set up trex flies very nice. Then when theres more time you can fire up the nitro and it will be super easy to fly compared to the trex with high head speed;Size does make a difference!. The 'rex will make your r50 flying very smooth. You can do all the new stuff on the sim, then the rex, this will hopefully keep the r50 out of the dirt! Thats how I'm doing it--just my 2 cents worth.
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
vic88my
Heliman
Location: Malaysia

If everything is >90% same, what makes nitro more crash proof than an electric ?
03-15-2007 Over year old.
 
 
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > What gets more flight time per dollar, electric or gas?
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