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Bergen R/C Helicopters > OS 61 Tuning Issue
 
 
carcraze
Heliman
Location: Ontario Canada

Hi all

I have an older Bergen 60 with an OS 61 WC in it and have been chasing the tuning for some time. I seem to get it where I want it and it goes lean then rich. It dawned on me it seemed tank related so I tested the theroy. I tuned so it has decent power at 1/4 tank any lower it will start to go lean. I filled the tank and could not even get enough headspeed to engage the TJ govenor. I guess this is why I posted here to see if this is a common tank height problem and is there something I can do about it. The tank is mounted sideways through the frames. I guess maybe a pump would be in order?

Mat
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

So is this a stacked frame Intrepid with the square-ish tank mounted thru both frames from the side with the cap sticking out on the needle side of the bird?

Running muffler pressure?

Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
carcraze
Heliman
Location: Ontario Canada

Yep that is the tank and yes I believe it is the stacked frame version. I have been chasing this for a while now, kind of pissed it took my this long to figure out the problem. Yes I am running muffler pressure it is a 2 piece muffler and I have replaced the Viton Orings so it is sealed well. I pulled the tank checked all lines, filters and made sure the nipples in the square tank were sealed. I hope the OS has survived as it has gone lean on me a few times chasing this down just when I figure I have it lean it goes.

Mat
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Brady Longmore
Senior Heliman
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

I had a nitro heli that seemed to have the same problem. As the tank got emptier the engine seemed to run leaner. hmmmm. I never did solve the problem.
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

It has been my experience that most of the nitro machines that run muffler pressure tend to get leaner towards the end of the tank. This is partly because the fuel level varies so greatly from the top of the tank to the bottom and even more of it is due to recycling oil into the mix from the muffler. As the tank empties, the oil to fuel ratio becomes richer and there is less burnable fuel in your fuel, hence the leaning out condition.

With the TJ Pro, this can be a pain as when you are running rich at the top of the tank, your throttle/pitch mix doesn't allow the TJ to engage (this was one of my deciding factors in choosing the GV-1 over the TJ Pro). One solution is to set up your throttle curve so that your headspeed when running on the curves is higher than you have set up in the TJ. That way when you are rich at the beginning of the tank, it will still engage. With a GV-1, it will engage much earlier and this isn't a problem.

The other issue can be fuel foaming. The less fuel there is in the tank, the more foam you will ingest and there is less fuel getting to the carb as a result.

A pumped motor will still suffer a bit from recycling the oil unless you leave the muffler pressure out of the mix (punn intended).

My personal solution was to run a bladder tank, which cured all my clunk woes as well. This keeps me from recycling my oil and getting inconsistant fuel/oil mix throughout the tank. I still run a bit leaner towards the bottom of the tank, but it is far less noticable. That along with the GV-1 has me running fine from the beginning of the tank to the end.

Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
carcraze
Heliman
Location: Ontario Canada

I bumped my throttle curves yesterday to engage during the rich stage but the power is way down when it is that rich and the TJ hates too rich as it will surge slightly. Then it begins to go lean on the very bottom which may also be foaming as you mentioned. There is an extreme high frequency vibe in the heli that shows in the bottom of the fin only but is apparant through fuel foam at the very end of the tank so I have not been flying it that low anymore. I have checked everything balance and even new mains and tails but the small vibe is still there. I was considering a header tank to help with air and clunk problems along with a pump without muffler pressure. Can you tell me where you picked up the bladder tank so I can look into it maybe I can see if soemthing is available around here? Do you run muffler pressure with the bladder or is the bladder pressure enough by itself?


Mat
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

I built my own bladder tank using the existing tank. I use a 3' balloon from balloons.com. I use that large a balloon so that it isn't inflating at all to fill the tank. Then I run muffler pressure outside the balloon. The system works awsome. I have been using it since IRCHA 2004 with only a couple replacements. It has a little longer life span then the average clunck line and gives a VERY consistant fuel flow.

A header tank could help. I've never had much faith in them. I see it as prolonging the inevitable.

Fuel foaming is pretty commun in most all glow machines. Nobody has a really good tank mount system to prevent it. I see that a lot of folks using the ELD clunk system are having really good luck. That may be something to look into.

Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > OS 61 Tuning Issue
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