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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Holy Flying Fly Bars Batman!!!
 
 
mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

It was so nice out side today I loaded up a couple of heli's and headed out. I had a couple of flights in on a Raptor 50 V2 with a few up grades. The rappy 50's are nice and quick with the Hyper's on 30% So after 25 minutes of that your head is ready to either fall off or at least rest a little. So I break out the Bergen Intrepid EB W/G260 Hanson pro 800MM NHP's it time for a little more gracefulness of form. Well on the second, tank about 1/2 hour of flying and I come around to a hover and at about 15 feet high at about 25 feet away I see this thing go flying off into space and I stay focused on the heli & come back to flight mode 1 which cancels the governor and quickly get her on the ground were as it starts the funky chicken but stays on the skids as she spools down shaking to beat the band The Fly bar looked as though it was precision laser cut of at the fly-bar arm I mean that bar was perfect straight and severed with precision I have never hit it or jammed it or bent or in any way damaged my fly-bar ever and yet it cleanly severed at the edge of the arm. Any ideas Has any one ever had this happen?
04-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
microDan
Senior Heliman
Location: New Jersey

Never mind, I thought it broke somewhere else. My bad.

"Do it like it's the last day of your life"
04-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
v22chap
Senior Heliman
Location: Howe, Indiana

Quote 
cut of at the fly-bar arm

No,no... he clearly said cut at the flybar arm (control arm ) two times and there are no threads cut on the inner part of the flybar ... this is a new one to me ... I have never seen any flybar break nor can I think of any reason why it would .... except for maybe the paddles were not lined up close enough and they were fighting each other making the arm flex back and forth ???
Maybe Chris or Mal can help out here as they have been around a lot longer .

Glad you were able to get it down in one piece ,without further damage.

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters
04-19-2006 Over year old.
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Crazy Horse
Senior Heliman
Location: Sioux Falls SD USA

dang that would be quite the experience, I wonder what kept it from going nuts untill it was on the ground spooling down

imagine kinda hard to say what caused it but that sounds like a pretty logical educated guess Larry...kinda like when you nick some #9 wire with your pliers (set screw) then flex it back and forth untill it finally snaps
lucky indeed nice save Mike

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04-19-2006 Over year old.
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Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Mike,
Could you give us the details on your flybar setup (paddles, weights, alignment, etc) and what sort of flying do you normally do with your bird?

I had one shear off like that once, the only one I've ever seen an a Bergen. It was determined at the time that I had too much paddle along with flybar weights and was maxing out the seesaw travel on a regular basis. That caused a repeated bending stress and breakage in the same place you are referring to accept mine came off next to the bearing and I never got it back to the ground in one piece. It was a spectacular explosion of the heli though.

Thanks,
Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
04-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

slow Lazy & Safe

How's that for a description? Mostly just slow stuff nothing to fast or fancy rolls, loops, flips. I am starting to push it up a little but mostly I fly like an "old man" Wow come to think of it I am an old man so there you have it!
The paddles are the ones shipped with the kit. White in color and are 17grams @ and they have the two mounting positions. I use the old man holes, the ones in the front, the not so aggressive mountings. Yet they can set the heli at a 90% attitude from a hover in 1/10 of a second in a space of 0 feet advancement. so they work well. My Raptor has the green lite weight paddles and they are the same reaction area and weight is 20 grams so they are heaver than my white Bergen's.
I think it is a failure I caused when I put the set screw in and tightened it down, somehow, I fractured the shaft and it just took a little while for it to sever the bar and paddle. I would not think that any other thing could have caused it. I am sure the vibrations and movement over time is what caused the final separation. I just have never seen such a clean break like that. I will try to load a pic soon to see.
Flying style, Flying style! Malorie I refer to a time you liked to cut your own tail off. You must have been flying the "Factory Sponsored Machine" cause you surly wouldn't treat your own personal bird that way HA HA HA only kidding! As for flying style Malorie you have earned my respect for your commitment to our hobby and your efforts have elevated our sport. I do thank you for your devotion to helping those who enjoy our hobby of helicopters. And I enjoy having had the chance last summer to see you fly. Very nice. Thanks to all who have replied. Your suggestions are helpful to solve problems and keep my flying safe. Sincerely Mike out in Arizona
04-22-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Mike,
I'm thinking you are probably right about the setscrew causing a weak point if that is where it fractured.

How's your paddle alignment? Just a thought, if your paddle alignment is off some, it could have caused some unusual loading of the flybar and extra stress.

Here's a simple way to align paddles that works great for me.

I use a pitch guage set to zero on the pallde and eyeball them to the two balls on the flybar control arms. No messing about walking round and round the heli with various levels, swashplate squaring tools, and various other doodads while running your reciever battery down. Just check your linkage lengths from the washout to the flybar control arms to be sure they are equal and everything will be aligned properly. Quick and easy.

Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
04-22-2006 Over year old.
 
 
mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

I got it fixed now, see.

04-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
v22chap
Senior Heliman
Location: Howe, Indiana

Mike ,You are to much ,,, I think I have seen you before ,,,no wait that is me in the mirror every morning but the resemblance is scary ....

I see the problem ,,,you need a bigger pipe wrench ,,that one will only crack the flybar a little.

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters
04-25-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

 Funny guy!

That break isn't from the final setscrew divot. And you're right, that is the cleanest break I've ever seen.

I also have no clue as to how or why. I suppose it's possible that on the initial installation, before setting the correct placement of the flybar arms, a small divot could have been created. I'm really reaching here.

Irregardless, from these pictures, I can most certainly replace the flybar for you Mike. It's on the way today.

Chris Bergen
04-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Crazy Horse
Senior Heliman
Location: Sioux Falls SD USA

WHOAAAAA stop the horses

From the above pictorial I see your folley now Mike...

That there pipe wrench is NOT a SASE certified flybar pipe wrench!!!


It is however a fine example of your typical Nebraska farmer variety precision metric adjustable torque wrench (open ended)

a.k.a. Bergen hooosecow potentiometer main rotor blade epithruster

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04-25-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

Love to Post on RR

I had to read the post twice Crazy Horse lots of big words. Nice to hear from ya. Crazy Horse! Where did you get that name?
Hey Chris you had nothing to do with the fly bar snapping. I have a few gallons on her now and some things just aren't your fault. As careful as we are, you just don't know the history of the part or what has happened to it in it's life span. Many times we don't see the event in the trailer we store them in, or get them to the flying site in. And we think that shouldn't have failed! But we don't know all the facts and it failed because it did. Not because it was defective. We rarely will ever see defective simple parts like a fly bar, they don't just happen. They are caused "most times"
Thanks all Sincerely Mike High in the mountains of northeastern Arizona "that's a place not a condition"
04-25-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Crazy Horse
Senior Heliman
Location: Sioux Falls SD USA

whered'ja get that name

HAHA I got a bang out of your pics up above Mike. Those are classic! Hope all is well down your way other than the the super accelerated unguided projectile coming off your heli!

Well the name I guess to make a short story longer,, this is the first online forum I signed up for and was really confuzzled on the "username" "screen name" "secret squirrel handshake" ....all that jazz. So I had recently in one of my college classes done a research paper on "Crazy Horse" the Native american (if my memory serves me, Chief). Part of the research was I took my gf at the time along and we went out to the Black Hills for my first time visit there (yea lived withing a few hundred miles for 25 yrs and had never been there before) to investigate the huge "Crazy Horse" monument in progress and to pick up a new toy from "black hills power sports". Needless to say I was completely awestruck by the magnitude and majestic nature of monument and the story behind its conception, the native american it imortalizes, and the vision of its founder just to name a few. Coupling that experience with the image of the legendary native that was painted by the book I read for the project was enough to leave a mark engraved in my head possibly forever. So I guess just kind of a minescule way to pay tribute and in addition I do happen to listen to a couple songs from Neil Young from time to time .....kinda a long way to get a "screen name"

To give credit, I found this shot in "videostuff's" gallery of the giant memorial that dwarfs Mt. Rushmore:



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04-26-2006 Over year old.
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invrtd
Veteran
Location: Central Florida

http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/me...t_Code=RCMCONUS

You might want to check out this product from Rick's if you are worried about it happening again.
04-29-2006 Over year old.
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mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

WOW

Thanks I believe I will
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

I'd love to hear Chris's thinking on those cones. I can't tell from the pics how they'd do anything more than add weight to the outboard end which would increase likelyhood of failure?? Maybe??

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
05-01-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

Well, I'm sure there are differing opinions on this, but IMHO, IF the flybar is going to break, devices such as this won't change that fact, all it may do is change where the flybar breaks!

There used to be a thing called flybar stiffeners, usually made from carbon fiber tubes, that slid over the standard flybar. It certainly stiffened up the flybar, but it also caused the flybars to break at the joint between the flybar arm and the stiffener.

A flybar flaps up and down, and fore and aft in flight, especially when doing hard 3D. By adding devices such as these you may localize a stress point, increasing the odds of a flybar breakage.

Chris Bergen
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

Thanks Chris. That's what I was thinking.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
05-01-2006 Over year old.
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matman
Veteran
Location: White Oak Texas USA

Holy Flying Fly Bars Matman!!!

I have learned the same thing as Chris was talking about many years ago when broken VW swing axles were very common when using them in dune buggies or in high performance street cars, and he is right. Actually turning the diameter down on the axles, and tapering off slowly to full diameter helped immensely on the axles. The stock axles were much better turned down than the aftermarket axles of harder stronger or even softer thicker material. For the same reason they will break at the weakest point in both applications. I doubt turning a fly bar down would work here even in a redesigned and scaled up fly bar setup, but some of the principles are the same in both applications. I do know that very often you will make matters worse with fixes like the cones and stiffeners, just as the same type things were worse in the VW scene.

"Respect my Authoritiah!"
05-01-2006 Over year old.
 
 
mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

Thank You Bergen

Thank you Chris I received the fly bar and it is well received. I will put it to good use.
I must say as we all know. Service is 2nd to none! Thank you once again Mr. Chris
05-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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