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XHELI.COM . Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby

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Beginners Corner > For newbies ! This will help.
 
 
dtl8686
Heliman
Location: Frankfort, IL.

Hello, I have been meesing with r/c helis for a bit now and one thing I have found out is....LISTEN TO THE PROS ! Your BEST first purchase is NOT a blade cp or cx or raptor or any other real heli. Your BEST first purchase is a simulator. It will save you literally hundreds of dollars. When you say " but i'm on a budget " well, even more reason to use the simulator ! It is an excellent tool that will bring you to a level you never could be so bold to try with your very expensive real heli. I'll admit, it's not 100% the real macoy...but it's damn close ! Guess what else ? when you can't hover those little electrics onthe sims worth a crap right away....It's like that for real ! Bigger helis DO fly better. Try your best to find the local guys in your area that fly....see what they are flying ! FLY THAT MACHINE ! They can be a wealth of knowledge to a newbie and save you a lot of money and your complete discouragement from the hobby. Nobody said this was easy, but if you want to really do this...The sims and experienced pilots are the way to go. If you have never set up a heli before ....don't try it on your own ! Chances are, you will miss something small, but it will be big in flight ! I know some people don't have the space to fly a .30 size heli or bigger and say they want to start with something smaller and electric. That's fine, and a lot of electric helis are great ! However, the smaller the heli...the more difficult time you will have. Larger helis are just simply more stable by nature. They are less affected by wind and ground effect. I know someone will read this and say..." but I flew just fine with my blade cx or hirobo sky robo ! " Those machines are designed to be extremely easy ! that is the point of them. Now try a machine like the blade cp or venom 3D...not the same is it ? These machines actually have a working tail rotor which makes them mor like the big brother counterparts. If you want to get into this hobby and do it as painlessly as possible these are the steps....1. Simulator...2. More simulator 3. find a person to help you and your nearest hobby shop and fly what has parts available for it and what you can get help with remeber..larger is more stable and that is what you want as a novice. 4. let the experienced person check over your initial build / set up. When they deem it airworthy and takre it up and trim it out for you..... start practicing. I know it sounds like a lot of hassle, but it's worth it in the long run. Yhe hobby has so many nice, knowledgeable and helpful people that you will be amazed how many new friends you will make and what you will learn by just asking. It's not rocket science ! ( IT'S HELICOPTER SCIENCE ) Hope this helps some. Trust me....I learned this from lots of mistakes, hopefully you can learn from mine !
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Tommy Z
Key Veteran
Location: Midland, Texas

thanks for that. i've pretty much already done that, i have two great friends out here helping me. but anyone else reading this, he's completely right, it would be smart to at least have someone help you with your set-up. i've made so many careless mistakes while building that didnt seem big (but really were), but luckily i had great help.
-Tommy

-Tommy
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
George Matthews
Key Veteran
Location: N.W. Ohio

I work part time in a hobby shop and I can tell you first hand that dtl8686 hit the nail on the head.
Most new people think the micro or mini route is cheaper, easier to fly, less intimidating and so on. I simply ask a couple questions.
Do you really want to FLY helis or play?
Are you in a position to make a commitment to a hobby?
If the answer to both these questions is yes, then I will try to steer them away from the micro, mini helis and try to get them into a glow machine. Now it is funny how many people want your opinion as long as you tell them what they want to hear. To these people I sell them a CX and be done with it. I would estimate that 85 to 90% of the people whom start out with a CX, CP, Night ranger 3D get no further than the basic hover stage before they either loose interest or get totally discouraged.
Now the guy that does buy the glow machine is making a larger commitment from the start and with our help will be successful as like stated before the larger glow machine is a much better learning platform.
In my opinion the cx,cp and other helis in this class do little to get people firmly into our hobby. They are a fad and do little to promote our hobby as most of us enjoy it.
Basically this is quick money for the manufacturers and hobby stores I can't really blame them but from our perspective not worth all the hype.

George Matthews
Team MRC/Hirobo
Team Wildcat Fuels
04-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
the collective
Veteran
Location: Bayside, NY, U.S.A

I work in a shop too, and you guys have said pretty much everything I could have... Wow.
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

Would be nice if easier to read as well...how about dividing into paragraphs?

thanks

EDITED:

I agree with some parts...

The simm...indeed a nice to have item and great for beginers as it will cut down on mishaps. I started with a Kiosho Caliber 24...it was a pain to get to hover and almost lost interest but once in the air...the bug really bit hard. Also agree with the smaller helis such as the ones mentioned...not for beginers.

BUT...then there's the Trex XL...best bang for your buck...indeed not for winds higher than 10 for beginers as it can be a handful...But in calm winds it is great for beginers as well and once you finally get it, you can fly anything bigger...the opposite does not hold true for many.

I would not recommned anything smaller than the trex XL...and not the SE mainly due to its high price.

Finally the Swift...close to a .30 by a few inches and to date no regrets...also best bang for your bucks...downside initial cost of lipos....offset with emolis lately...and eventually as it evolves.

My point being that a glow does not necessarily has to be the way to go.

Indeed seek "on hands" help whenever you can especially for setups.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
04-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brady Longmore
Senior Heliman
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

I personally messed around on a sim for a few years before I ever flew a real heli, and I when I did finally fly my real heli, I was able to take it right into a hover with no training gear, and hold it for a whole minute before landing. The only reason I had to land was due to my legs shaking so bad

Anyway, without that time on the sim, I wouldn't be anywhere near the skill level I'm at today as a newbie. Even now, after having the real thing, I still get on the sim and practice some of the stuff I want to try before taking out the real thing. For example it's very helpful to do some nose in hovering on a sim for a while before going out and doing it for real.

I tell anyone that wants to get into the hobby, "GET A SIMULATOR"
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
dtl8686
Heliman
Location: Frankfort, IL.

correction to post

I agree that you don't always have to go nitro. However, the key word there was BIGGER ! Not nitro. ALthough, nitro will give you more flight time. you can simply come down, refuel and you're back up. Unless you invest hundreds into lipos you can't do that.

Also, I would like to add that if you can't do a large heli due to size restrictions then a smaller heli like the trex is great. I've heard from several people that if you are going to do a "micro" heli. The trex is well built. However, it is still not as stable as a larger platform .30 or larger size heli. A friend who has both the trex and raptors told me he loves his trex " awesome machine" but he wouldn't exactly call it a trainer. He has been flying helis for 15 years ! You really need to weigh things out. I myself would love an all electric .50 size electric machine. But, i don't want to pay that much for the amount of batteries that you will need for a day out flying ! some up to $ 400.00 each, ouch ! I could buy a lot of fuel for that price.

Electrics are wonderful, and may very well be the future of r/c flight. However, with current technology and price of batteries it isn't quite there yet. It is coming down though from when it started. Also, there is rumor of a large trex 600 coming out ! this would be the best of both worlds if it's reasonably priced Again, one MAJOR factor with any helicopter is quality. You really do get what you pay for. Save your money for the one you really want and don't get that supposed "trainer" that costs only $200.00 with the radio. You will be frustrated and feel that this hobby is too difficult and give up. It isn't it just takes practice. No person is born a great pilot, or guitar player or race driver...they want it ! So, they practice as often as they can because they like to do it and before you know it.....you have a Youngblood on your hands or a Hendrix.

You really can't expect results over night. If you aren't crashing...you aren't flying ! I'm sure you know that though !
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

missed the keyword...thanks.

Indeed lipo prices are an issue, I pointed that out. There is plenty this vs that in here already.

I was offering an alternative for those than can afford it as well as the fly anywhere-anytime cleaner option.

After all...helis in general are the most expensive to get into of all R/Cs stuff out there...so I guess another word of advise is to be ready for it.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
04-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dtl8686
Heliman
Location: Frankfort, IL.

Good point. there is even turbines for those who can afford it ! I wish I was one of them. all sorts of options ! Logo makes a great line of electrics and they even have conversion kits for the raptors , it's those darn batteries !
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
walter23
Senior Heliman
Location: calgary ab

Just remember, simulators don't have to be expensive. Clearview + gamepad joystick with two analogue inputs = $50 total. It's not quite as realistic as reflex or G2/G3, but it's very close. Close enough that if you learn to fly with it you'll be flying the real thing in no time.

---
Another blade CP first-time heli owner.
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
holy_schmoly
Heliman
Location: usa

Good advice

Yeah, I've been flying my sim for about 5 months now. Can do the usual stuff: nose in, tail in, side, forward flight, loops, rolls, stall turns, inverted tail in and nose in hover, auto. Mind you, that's on a Reflex XTR. I will get a nitro heli soon. I'm sure it'll be a lot different. Hopefully not too different though.

I concur with the first post. I will be visiting my local heli field and scoping out for an expert to talk to. There is no better way to learn than to have someone give you a boost. And then its practice, practice, practice, and more practice, followed by tons of practice, preceding more practice ...
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
barndoorski
Heliman
Location: Woodstock IL. USA

noob

I am a noob to this stuff but feel some of your thinking here is wrong. I purchased the Blade CP for my first heli because it was cheap. I didn't know if I liked them or not at this point but I know if I just got a sim it would be a video game just like my DTR2 or motocross madness. I used to race but niether of these games would have got me hooked to start racing. On the other hand the Blade CP caught me, it was a challenge! Now I have a cheap challenge and something that I can't hit reset on. Now I got the sim to help with orientation, helped alot. Today I have some skills, enough to hover my new to me raptor 60. I have some friends helping me with build and setup, it is all of you here and some from other forums and a lot of reading. No hurry here it is just a hobby.
The bottom line is, without a cheap heli such as the Blade I would have never started into this hobby. Good or bad for the hobby this is how it is for me :-)
04-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
cooperd
Senior Heliman
Location: Everett

I agree with barndoorski's comments. I bought a Blade CX for Xmas as a toy! Learned to fly it reliably fairly quickly. Thought a Blade CP would be fun. Found out real quick that it was A LOT harder than the Blade CX. Since I already had G3 sim I began working on it in earnest. I can now hover the Blade CP and move it around sort of reliably. In the process I got hooked. I'm looking forward to getting a Trex XL when I have progressed more with the CP. In the meantime the CP is just fine and still a challenge.

Certainly, looking back I would have been better off going with the Trex to start, but I never dreamed I would get so addicted to learning to fly helos. I probably will never master 3D or any of the wild stuff but I enjoy just hovering and moving around.

I'm 66 and just started flying glo plug planes last fall. I have three..all big fairly slow trainer/sport planes and I just enjoy driving them around the field and shooting landings.
04-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
guillermozorro
Heliman
Location: Sherman Oaks CA USA

Which Simulator, where available, and why?

Hello, I am truly new, but have followed R/C for25 years -I remember the Boucher brothers when they were young! This is my second attempt to POST. Please be patient, thanks.

It seems that some of us prefer the concept of a neat, clean "no-mess" backyard flyer - at least initially. No fuel.starter,glowplug,engine break-in, issues. There are other, different options to mystify one.

In this regard, I have examined numerous "chat" R/C forums, and find them somewhat tedious. I recognize the strengths of .30 - .90 size heli's [-had a Kyosho Concept when they were 1st out -never flew!] and indeed the new JUMBO T-rex would be ideal - again, for me upgraded with metal components [I LOVE the look].

I purchased a modified Dragonfly 36/Shogun with brushless, Spetrum radio, Futaba gyro, and all metal head, collective, and tail components, and bailed on a Raptor 30 modified to electric. I have no clue why T-rex is held in such high regard and Dragonfly and Shogun [modified with quality metal parts] are so villified?

With a training stand [Canadian], I feel more comfortable in beginning - but first need to establish the set-up for heli and radio -WHEW!

I am still searching for the necessary tools, and would like to convert from Z-bend to metal balls. Also searching for best Ni-cad/Li-po combination charger that can run from house current.

I agree that the CX is tempting, but then you're just testing interest before switching to collective heli, IMO

With traing and practice, I hope to graduate to a larger electric, or electric modified machine -and then I can take full advantage of my JR PCM-10
Bill
04-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

Quote 
I have no clue why T-rex is held in such high regard and Dragonfly and Shogun [modified with quality metal parts] are so villified?


Quote 
would like to convert from Z-bend to metal balls.


You dont see the answer?

The trex-xL IS the best bang for your money with NO upgrades when compared to walkera and shogun...but to be honest it is not a fair comparison due to sizes.

Indeed some take it to extremes.

I am curious as to the amount you have invested so far to bring yours up the par.

A new trex-xl that comes with brushless motor and ESC can now be had for 218 w/shipping...for same price you can get a swift or logo...but no motor or esc.

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
04-16-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Timmah0422
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa,OK

I'd like to chime in here as well if I could. This article should be stickied to the top!! It's GREAT advice. The reason I said this is I tried the budget route as well. Got a Venture 30, 401, JR 6102, OS .37, built it, got a sim...tried it out but found it really really tough to master. Put it aside and worked more on my heli....got the engine broken in by running 5-7 tanks through it without taking off. Then got confident and took off. After 3 crashes and several hundred dollars I sat down and practiced 15 min a day minimum learning to hover...then it clicked!! I "got it" and was hovering and flying foreward. So then I got my AMA card, joined a local flying field and WOW I found out what I was missing!! those guys were sooo kind and helpful and fun!!

I guess the real point of this blurb is I tried it all on my own because I was shy and worried I'd look like a newb!! So I learned the hard way and luckily didn't get discouraged. My first real flight after about 2 weeks of sim practice (about an hour a day) I took my heli up into a perfect hover....NO TRAINING GEAR!! I havent used my training gear since!!! And am now about ready to try loops and rolls!! what a great hobby!!! GO find experience and go see em fly at a flying field...YOU WONT REGRET IT!!!!
04-16-2006 Over year old.
 
 
felix12
Senior Heliman
Location: Wales, UK

To date I have not bought a sim, but before I ever left the ground I put a gallon thru it with the heli light on the skids, then followed some tentative hope, but I was airborne well and truly by the end of the second gallon.
04-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
guillermozorro
Heliman
Location: Sherman Oaks CA USA

Still which SIM ?

Hello,
I did indicate I am new, not dense. The T-Rex does seem to have a larger following, but I have seen nothing definitive with regards to learning curve, sturdiness, 3-D performance, repair costs, etc. Reminds me of the Ford vs. Checy or Cadillac vs Lincoln arguments I heard 45 years ago.

Including adding blade balancer[s] (I mow realize not really necessary with today's modern carbon blades, tools for adjusment, pitch guage, various addtional "bits", a quality Ni-cad/Li-po charger, and the aforementioned [Canadian] heli stand, will have @ $700 total [I am debating the dial calipers and the snap-on attachment from Ric's to measure rod/ball link distance consistantly]

I am definitelt interested in the larger T-Rex, with metal upgrades when available!

I would gather that G3 is some kind of game adaptable as a SIM - I have been with computer since Apple II - still have a G4 in "mouthballs"
Thanks
04-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
dleroi123
Senior Heliman
Location: Old Lyme, CT

cooperd and guillermozorro -

I'm glad to see your posts. It's refreshing to see other newcomers in my age bracket.

I got interested in R/C helicopters about a year ago, pondered the idea for a while, and decided to go for it. I just finished building a Raptor 50 - converting it to electric on the way up. It's ready to fly, but I'm not quite there. I need a lot more time on the simulator before I'm ready to take the risk!

I'll be watching this thread and heeding all the good advice.

- Don
04-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
the collective
Veteran
Location: Bayside, NY, U.S.A

Quote 
I would gather that G3 is some kind of game adaptable as a SIM - I have been with computer since Apple II - still have a G4 in "mouthballs"



G3 is the short name referring to "RealFlight Generation 3" a simulator sold by Great Planes distributing. At the moment, G3 and Reflex XTR are the two most popular sims. Both run on Windows based PC's. G3 requires a more powerful system than Reflex XTR.

I'm running Reflex XTR and it performs very well on my system... An Athlon 1.2mhz CPU, 512MB RAM, and an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro video card. G3 would need a more powerful system to run at its best.
04-17-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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