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Heli-Max . Hobby Hut . PowerHelis

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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Burn Out
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

This is what happens when the cench pin that holds the carby falls out doing sorta 3D. The carby din't fall right out but enough not to suck the fuel well plus mass air in.YES lean run at 2200 rpm.All this in less than 30 sconds, I desended asap,when had next to no power and losing it rappidly auto ed the last 20 feet with a very load CLICK before engine stoped dead. The moral of the story CHECK the carby bolt.
If you look close you see the crack in the little end near the oil hole.
Phot.,in my gallery.
Cheer's

04-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

This is or was Hypyer 50 on 10% nitro with 12 litres of fuel through it.
04-03-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

Just bought new 50sx-h today will swap head and carby for this weekend Burn some more fuel CHECK carby bolt more and more.
Part #'s show the same, hope timing is the same we shall see.
04-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
WreckRman2
Key Veteran
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Sorry but an engine will not tarnish and burn a hole in the piston with just a single 30 sec flight running lean. From the pics it appears this engine has been running lean for a very long time.

________________
David Smith
317.777.3230
Align Trex 700, YS91SR, SB19, GY611
04-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
sircrashhappy
Heliman
Location: jennings, la

i agree i have a tt50 with about 5 complete tanks of realy lean run & nothing like that. looks like from the stains on tn side of the cylinder the head gasket has been bad for awhile.
04-05-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

I have to agree about the tarnish colour but the huge sudden power loss.(may be it burnt through finally)on that flight.
04-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
sircrashhappy
Heliman
Location: jennings, la

i've seen dirt bikes do the same from long term lean run & poorly seated spark plugs or loose plugs.
04-06-2006 Over year old.
 
 
3d type
Senior Heliman
Location: Bridgeport,CT USA

looks like the head was loose for a while too from all the staining.

how'd the ground come up like that ?
04-07-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

Time to run a brand new one tomorrow.Will also try none caster oil based fuel aswell WILL check head bolts an carby cench pin more often.
The splatter from castor is giving me sh888 on the pipe to.
04-07-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Top End
Senior Heliman
Location: Darwin

Update my old mate burnt one today NO loose bolts No burnt oil marks.
so he tells me on the land line just .Will check this all out tomorrow We are using diff.,fuel mixs as well.
My new 50 is ok at this point.20% oil 10% nitro.
He said just 10 hours running time....
04-22-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

Quote 
Will also try none caster oil based fuel aswell


This is probably the BEST thing you can do to help the engine.

Also a higher nitro % will actually help it run a little cooler. The Hyper won't fuss at all if you feed it 30%

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
04-22-2006 Over year old.
 
 
rob10000
Key Veteran
Location: Western Massachusettes

The .91 SZ-H has the same part for tha carb cinch assembly. Mine fell out last weekend, but fortunately, didn't result in any damage.
04-22-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
lightningrc
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
Also a higher nitro % will actually help it run a little cooler. The Hyper won't fuss at all if you feed it 30%


I thought more nitro more heat . if nitro gives more power surely it will get hotter , also it will runner leaner at the same setting because there will be less fuel content %
04-22-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

Quote 
I thought more nitro more heat . if nitro gives more power surely it will get hotter , also it will runner leaner at the same setting because there will be less fuel content %


You thought wrong. Nitromethane is an oxidizer. It's effect is similar to running Nitrous Oxide into a car engine. As an oxidizer, it's primary purpose is to introduce OXYGEN into the burn equation.

When you increase the nitro content, you usually richen up the mixture to compensate, not the other way around. Cooling is mostly influenced by oil content. With higher nitro, you can also increase the oil content without too much power loss as the overall fuel burns better. Just look at Wildcat Curtis Youngblood fuel. 30% Nitro and 23% oil. That means that less than half of the fuel content is methanol.

The more Nitro, the more efficient the combustion in the engine. This results in more power at richer settings, which means more fuel flowing through the engine. Cooling is accomplished by the proper venting of exhaust fumes and OIL through the engine, so the engine will actually run cooler with higher nitro.

Leif
04-23-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

Leif

Thanks a million, you just saved me a whole bunch of typing, you summed up my reply with yours.

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
04-23-2006 Over year old.
 
 
lightningrc
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

But am I right in saying if you set an engine up on 10% nitro then just used 30 % nitro it would run hotter ?? unless you richened the mixture .
04-23-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jbeech
Key Veteran
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

You guys are giving Top End too much grief. The top of the piston actually shows build up from running conservatively rich, not lean. However, the staining just beyond the flange show the head has been operating loose (for an undetermined period of time).

Folks, an engine's bolts should be re-torqued after the first few heat cycles (runs). While every two gallon expert out there will jump in to explain how you can successfuly break-in your engine in the helicopter (I agree, you can), I continue to advise against it. Why? Because on a test stand you control the variables. Witness how Top End made the statement how he couldn't get the model down in time once he realized something was wrong.

Anyway, after a gallon of fuel on the test stand (for the 50SX or Hyper, I advise an APC 9.5x6.5N for break-in), I'm quite confident of placing the engine into an environment (the helicopter) where there is significantly less likelihood of my being able to get the engine back to where I can make an adjustment quickly (i.e. from in flight).

Look, when the engine is broken-in in the model . . . how many of you take the time and effort to re-torque the backplate and carb bolts, much less remove the engine from the helicopter in order to re-torque the head bolts? What you see here are the results of breaking-in an engine in the model and then not re-torquing the bolts.

I would hazard a guess that the leaking at the head began with the third or fourth flight and continued to progressively get worse and is probably the leading contributor to the burn through of the piston. In my opinion, the carb coming loose would generally lead to the engine dieing out rather quickly - but this time there ws no margin for error.

Anyway, to repair the engine, plan on a piston, ring, rod, and while you're at it, a new rear bearing - and if it were my engine, a new front bearing too. Furthermore, I would advise replacing the bearings with synthetic cage versions which will withstand the ravages of combustion byproducts.

Finally, if you're into unfamiliar territory when it comes to a rebuild, I have written a white paper on the subject (specifically referencing the OS 50SX-H). It's available for free here . . .

http://www.audacitymodels.com/whitepapers/index.html

Kindest regards,


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
AMA # 47381
04-23-2006 Over year old.
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

Quote 
But am I right in saying if you set an engine up on 10% nitro then just used 30 % nitro it would run hotter ??


Not necessarily. It depends how lean the engine was to begin with. The fuel would burn more efficiently, but there would be LESS METHANOL to burn. The net effect (as far as heat goes) would probably be similar. Of course, if you were running the engine lean with 10% nitro you do risk overheating if you switch to 30% and don't re-tune the engine.

Leif
04-24-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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