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Computer Flight Simulators > Anyone else got a letter from Reflex?
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

i wonder if saracen are going to sue me for using a halfords puncture repair kit on an innertube from THEIR bike...

meh
03-21-2006 05:29 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Andy from Sandy
Veteran
Location: UK

webhost you are being an arse and your input is not contributing anything.

bagobitz I believe has got it down right.

Hasn't Reflex got to prove that the sole purpose of the purchase to infringe their license?
03-21-2006 06:32 PM
 
 
Red9301
Senior Heliman
Location: London UK

Having due to my Job a good understanding of Civil law, this would certainly not stand up in an English court of law. i wonder if any Brits have recieved this letter?

The burdon of proof as previously said is with Reflex, the resposibility with the supplier and the supplier alone for causing loss to the company. Thay have no right (at least in UK law) to demand from the consumers a 'handling fee'. Any recompense for thier loss should soley be tied to the legal settlement between the supplier of the cable and reflex.

I also suspect that the distribution of the names and adresses is a direct violation of the Data protection Act, a piece of british legislation that is based on a europen union directive (and therefore all EU members will have legislation reflecting this directive).

I'm sure they have no founding in english law and i'm quite sure that this would also not stand up in the eurpeon court's. If I were reflex's legal advisor I would be sweating, as this stinks of negligence, and could well leave Reflex open to a counter sue under the DPA.

I would send then an acnowledgement that you have recieved the letter, seek legal advice immediately, and dont send them any money whatsoever untill it is shown that you must.

Im very disaponted with the way they are handling this. I love the software.

Red

Making crashing an art form...
03-21-2006 06:34 PM
 
 
Wa11banger
Elite Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Al

Hell fix em good, compile everyone together and take a class action harrassment suite out against them. I am sure the same list can be aqcuired by lawyers requesting to take action against Reflex as well. Very poor taste and sad state of affairs for them they should have used some forethought.

Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, KBDD & Compass Model teams
03-21-2006 06:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

So what happens if after we send the interface to Reflex, RealFlight or another Sim maker thinks this was a good idea and also tries to blackmail the interface owners. How many companies can claim damages because of this? Also how many times can we send the damned thing?
03-21-2006 07:13 PM
 
 
Wa11banger
Elite Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Al

Hell I would make them come after you.. that would absorb any $75 they could get out of you. I would not put up with that at all but as pointed out earlier I do not know your laws. I think the letter is more a scare tactic than truthfully legal. I also do not believe as many times they have thrown the "We're a small company flag" out that they could afford to track down everyone and pursue legal action it would put them out of business just to try. I still agree that proof of abuse is required and they cannot prove you used it with thier product. Until they can tell em to stuff it

Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, KBDD & Compass Model teams
03-21-2006 08:39 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
bagobitz
Veteran
Location: saddleworth,lancs,UK

HAVE I GONE SENILE??? I don't see the obnoxious threatening letter any more..
RR 600....if you lose or break your TV remote, the set-maker wants $70 for a new one...but the local telly shop has "universal"ones that do the hifi, Sattelite, cable and VCR as well at only $15....You 'd pay factory ransome?.
your Volkswagen remote alarm/immobiliser/key is lost or broken. VW want £220 to supply and code a new one....you can buy an exact replacement for £85 including coding.......BUT VW will not tell you the 4-figure code, they want £120 to code your key. would you track down an alternative?
"screwing" a captive customer is not allowed in the UK...nor is price-rigging.
"sharks" trade in UK waters at their peril.
03-21-2006 09:43 PM
 
 
rotor- shark
Veteran
Location: uk

At the end of the day this all boils down to the fact that the software is far too expensive at £130.that's just being greedy.if it was £9.99,nobody would bother buying a dodgy pirate copy interface when they could have the real thing.the outlaws would be out of business at a stroke.what's happening is reflex is eating an entire cake to itself,and sombody else is trying to take a slice of that cake.the law is usually on the side of the original creator(reflex),it's not right that folk should simply just copy the dongle and sell it,on the other hand,it's not right that reflex should charge £130 for the software either,they are encouraging outlaws to copy their product by charging over the top for it in the first place.

all comments are my opinion only!
03-21-2006 10:13 PM
 
 
cwehner
Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

first of all. Lets all remember this is a civil case. If anyone knows anything about law they also know that the burden of proof is much lower in civil court. Example- OJ simpson. Got off 100% in the criminal court, But not in civil court. HMMMM, the criminal court said he was innocent though. Doesn't matter. Lower burden of proof.
Another example- Anyone remember the whole direct tv sattelite piracy? Well in Canada it was legal to do so because direct tv wasn't available in that country. So people all over the world bought from canadian companies a simple, "very legal" card security reader/writer For the sole purpose of writing new code onto the card so they could steal sattelite. Now the card reader/ writers could also be used for other legal things so how can they prove thats what people used it for. Well Direct tv finally bought all those companies in canada and sent nice letters from their lawers to all the people who had bought the hardware from these companies."we are suing you"! A letter almost exactly like the Reflex one. Well a friend of mine who bought a few of them is still going through court preceedings with direct tv and it has cost him "alot" of money and many years of headache fighting it. I believe they have reached a settlement though.
So don't underestimate what can be sued for through civil court.

Chris
03-21-2006 10:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wa11banger
Elite Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Al

I had one of those... lol and I remember all that hubbub. Your buddy bought more than one I can assure you.. They only went after profiteers not personal use

Sorry to hijack post
Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, KBDD & Compass Model teams
03-21-2006 10:29 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

Quote 
webhost you are being an arse and your input is not contributing anything.


Thanks, i like to keep my usual style

If you read back i have made 1 or 2 contributions btw, and i doubt i was being as much of an arse with that post than reflex are vicimising people..

meh
03-21-2006 10:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Laurens
Key Veteran
Location: Oegstgeest, NL

Quote 
Due to the complex nature of the interface as a technology sensitive part of the product, I will NOT sell the USB interface seperately and will NOT replace lost interfaces. So please watch your interface - it is the key to your Reflex. Also, the Reflex software will not run with any other interface as the way we process the radio signal is very unique and a good part of our simulation quality.


That means if I lost my interface I'm screwed. How's that for a 200+ euro investment?

TeamFlightpower, Team Flighttech, BW Stratus, Trex 500
03-21-2006 10:40 PM
 
 
Higgy
Heliman
Location: N/W Germany

Its amazing, what some users thinking..
When i am on our flying field, and lost my Graupner Radio , do you think i get from Graupner a new one for nothing ? ?

EDIT , same thinking like Kurt i see

regards, Jens
03-21-2006 10:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
hingus2000
Key Veteran
Location: West Midlands UK Posts: 75069

Quote 
That means if I lost my Ferrari, I'm screwed. How's that for a 150,000+ CHR investment? Do these ideas come natural or do you have to breed these ideas?


Youve lost all credibility with that awful response. Completely different situation.

Shame, because you have shot yourself in the foot, because a better analogy is...

if you lose the keys to your Ferarri...

Are you screwed then? No you get new keys for the car if you can prove it is yours......

Can anyone see what im getting at...

SwissKurt....You are a MORON...and that isnt based on your stance in the argument, because i respect people with different points of view, but you have been aggressive and made yourself look like a complete twat.

Tom

T-Rex SA, Anodized Head, Gy240, 3s TP 2100mah, Align 35A ESC, 430L Motor
03-21-2006 10:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

if you lost your ferarri i would imagine insurance would pay up

meh
03-21-2006 10:54 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Red9301
Senior Heliman
Location: London UK

We could discuss this interesting and disturbing topic, so that the reflex lads might read and inwardly digest, and consider laying off their potential consumer base with their shallow threats...

Nahh lets just bitch at each other like a bunch of schoolgirls.



Red

Making crashing an art form...
03-21-2006 11:18 PM
 
 
bagobitz
Veteran
Location: saddleworth,lancs,UK

ROTOR SHARK..sorry to disagree, these sims are MUCH more sophisticated than the majority of GAMES....i believe one or more of the car games are also very sophisticated...now do the math,,,they probably sell 1,000 of them to every sim (actually, nearer10,000 to 1) so on that basis, £9.99 is a total rip. you are getting a niche-market,sophisticated piece of specialised software,free upgrades,free support (or swiss abuse if it's reflex ) and you think that you are ripped????
Use the net, buy legally at best price,enjoy, you can STILL sell it for about 1/2 price when you're done. A BARGAIN.


I REPEAT..IF YOUR "ALTERNATIVE" DONGLE CONTAINS PIRATED COPYRIGHT
SOFTWARE, YOU SHOULD SEND THE CHIP ONLY TO THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER.
I don't condone piracy,but if you're using a device to run LEGITIMATE software,I find that morally acceptable.
HINGUS..please don't be so rude to our swiss -domiciled collegue. Try to lead by example (he tried, his way, -see where it's getting him! )
03-21-2006 11:29 PM
 
 
psyclick
Heliman
Location: Basingstoke, UK

What everybody seems to have missed here with all these analogies about keys and Ferrari's etc. is that you pay Reflex for the dongle, the software is FREE to download from their site.

You don't pay Ferrari for the keys and get a Maranello free do you ?

Don't think they should have asked for money though . . .

Just my tuppence worth.

It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always get in . . .
03-21-2006 11:42 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cwehner
Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

Let me clean up that Ferrari analogy.. If you bought a ferrari and could "magically" wigle your nose and reproduce as many ferrari's as you wanted to and give them to friends (wich the Reflex software is essentially just that), But you couldn't reproduce the "key" do you think you should be able to keep asking for new keys from Ferrari to give to all your buddies so they can use their new car? Seems like that would unfairly put Ferrari right out of bussiness. I'm sure they would'nt just sit there and take it.
03-21-2006 11:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Squirrlybird
Veteran
Location: Suffolk, Va US

Quote 
Let me clean up that Ferrari analogy.. If you bought a ferrari and could "magically" wigle your nose and reproduce as many ferrari's as you wanted to and give them to friends (wich the Reflex software is essentially just that), But you couldn't reproduce the "key" do you think you should be able to keep asking for new keys from Ferrari to give to all your buddies so they can use their new car? Seems like that would unfairly put Ferrari right out of bussiness. I'm sure they would'nt just sit there and take it.


Should Ferrari then ask your friends to pay the price of a ferrari and return the car? NO! Return the car? YES! Sue the man wiggling the nose? YES!

This is getting beat to death.
03-22-2006 12:19 AM
 
 
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